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Leslie on ‘Post Woke’ with Mickey Z

By April 14, 2022October 8th, 2022No Comments

Leslie speaks with Mickey Z, connecting lockdowns, digital currency, mandates, the Great Reset, inflation & more!

Click here to listen to the full interview or read the conversation below.

Mickey: Leslie, thank you for all you do. Thank you for making time in your busy schedule, and welcome to Post Woke. 

Leslie: Thank you so much for having me, Mickey. It’s great to be here with you.

Mickey: I truly appreciate it. Now, I want to give you plenty of room to share your immense knowledge. So I’m going to give you a brief intro here. I’ve been writing and podcasting for a long time to provide as much evidence as I can that would challenge or even dismantle the pandemic narrative. But even when I make some progress, I still encounter many mainstream folks who simply cannot conceive of the possibility that the powers that shouldn’t be could be corrupt, sociopathic liars. So if you will, could you help us begin making some big connections? What I mean is, why were mom-and-pop businesses locked down while big stores stayed open? And what do such selective lockdowns have to do with, say, pensions, central banks, interest rates, transhumanism, the World Economic Forum, vaccine mandates, fraudulent science, digital currency, debt- forgiveness, Universal Basic Income, our access to the internet, and so much more. So with all that said, Leslie, the floor is yours. 

Leslie: Okay, that is a huge amount of information to try and cover. And we have about what, 30 minutes, am I right? 

Mickey: Yes.

Leslie: Okay. But it is so important. You know, I have family members and friends say to me, oh, come on, people aren’t that evil. Oh, c’mon, it can’t be that bad. And I feel that one of the major components that’s missing from the whole health freedom movement and just the health-based discussion about this whole thing is a piece that I talk about, which is critical to understand that when people actually when they’re desperate, will do very crazy things. And history teaches us that when rulers are at risk of losing their power and control, they will resort to very draconian measures. And I personally believe based on my own research and knowledge and experience that that’s exactly what’s going on here. And so, really, to sum it up in a nutshell, I’m sure most of your listeners have heard about the Great Reset, but what they don’t understand is why the Great Reset. And why now? Why not ten years ago, or why not? In 2030 or 32? You know, why not in 10 more years? And to me, the real issue is essentially we’ve gotten to a place where the powers that be can no longer kick the debt can down the street, they simply can’t. They are tapped out. It’s worse in Europe than in the United States. But it’s a bad situation everywhere. And essentially what’s been happening for decades is that these people in power have been making promises to the electorate and borrowing with no intention of ever repaying. And overextending themselves to the point where now they can’t resolve it anymore. There’s no way. And the whole system has to come down because what do you do when your government has $30 trillion? Just think about that trillion dollars. You know, 30 years ago it was a few trillion. It was nothing, and I mean, I still show a chart in some of my video interviews where you just see the debt just skyrocket in the last 30 years. It took us 220 or 30 years to get to a trillion. And then only 30 more years, I think to get us to 30 trillion. And I mean, that’s just an insane number, but essentially that’s what’s really happening. And when you start to think about it in that way, then I think it’s easier for people to understand. When do politicians ever say they’re sorry? When do they ever admit that they’re wrong? And what people don’t understand is that I think there’s two kinds of pieces to this. One, there has been a slow creep in legislation to erode our freedoms and to capture our health agencies and other agencies, and I can unpack all of that legislative stuff, but the second thing that’s really important is that there’s been this increasing inclination to borrow and spend and no one cares anymore. It’s kind of like Stalin said that two deaths are a tragedy and 20 million are history. 

Mickey: Yes. 

Leslie: He said something along those lines. I think it’s the same thing. Once we crossed a trillion, you have people who are like, oh my gosh, it’s so terrible. And now people are like, oh, well, you know, 30 trillion, big whoop. I mean, I think it’s so inconceivable that people dismiss it because it’s actually more comfortable to just not pay attention to it.

Mickey: Absolutely.

Leslie: And so I think that’s really a big part of what is going on, and what I’d love to do is unpack that for you.

Mickey: Please do.

Leslie: So if you look at what’s going on in Europe, they have very, very generous, you know, a welfare state, right? Huge. And in Europe, it’s much, much worse than in the United States in terms of their indebtedness. If you look at the 2008 to 2009 financial crisis, which hinged largely on real estate, you had a situation where the banks were close to going under. And the reason for that is that people borrowed; they borrowed, and they shouldn’t have been borrowing. And I remember reading about someone who was like a lap dancer, you know, a pole dancer, you know, a lady who did that kind of thing in Florida, and she had three homes and mortgages. She had like $900,000 worth of debt. They should never have this, but this is what happened, okay? And the banks were taking those loans from those people and selling them to other institutions. They were packaging them up and saying these are high-quality instruments because they said that there was no risk because they were all packaged together. And so it reduced the risk, but they were all garbage, and then they were selling them on to investors, and they were rating them as investment grade instruments. And what ended up happening was the whole house of cards came down. Well, in Europe, because of the structure of the European Union, they never made the banks write off all their bad debts. So the banks have billions and billions of bad debts, which were never written off. In the United States, we had to write off our bad debts. And so, the US banks are in much better shape than the European banks are.

Mickey: Okay.

Leslie: So that’s one major difference it’s really important to understand, and it’s super important because that then feeds into what’s happening. The locus of the problem is Europe more than it is the United States. And that is why so much of the draconian stuff is coming out of Europe, emanating from Europe. And that’s why also the whole Great Reset, I believe, is emanating from Europe because they know that they are going down there on a sinking ship, and they’ve got to do something in order to retain power. What dictator or tyrant, or even just ruler, gives up power voluntarily? I mean, it just doesn’t happen right? 

Yeah, never happens.

 I mean, maybe George Washington? But I mean, he was an extraordinary human being. So anyway, what happened was the banks never wrote off their bad debt, and they couldn’t do it because one country in Europe won’t bail out another country. So if one country in Europe had tons and tons of bad debts relative to another, the ECB, the European Central Bank, couldn’t issue currency, issue money, issue debt to them to help bail them out to one country, to bail out another that’s the way it works. You need 27 member nations to all agree, and they don’t do that. So they never wrote down their bad debt. And just to put this in context, at the peak of the problem, US banks had about 20% asset ratio, 20% of assets relative to their loans, okay. The Fed made them shore up their balance sheets back down to 4%. Now what that means is that, you know, they were down at 4%, and then they made them go to 20%. Sorry, I missed that up. They were down at 4% at the peak of the crisis, meaning that for every $4 that they had in the bank, they loaned out 96. And what the Fed made them do was go back to 20% as loan-to-asset ratios. So they had $20 for every 80 that they loaned out, much, much safer than the four to 96. In Europe, they never did it because they didn’t want to write off their bad debts. So they’re still in bad shape right now. And to make matters worse, the European Central Bank had to lower interest rates, and they lowered them to actually negative. They went negative. They’re doing anything and everything they can to stimulate the economy, and it didn’t work, and nothing happened for eight years. And so what happened was the only thing that happened was that they destroyed their own bond market, and they destroyed their pension markets because pensions need roughly 7 to 8% returns on their assets every year in order to be able to service their liabilities. And they’re bound to hold a good portion of their assets in government debt. Well, government debt is yielding zero. It’s not going to help you get to your 7 or 8%, is it? 

Mickey: No.

Leslie: And so what’s happened is the pensions are broke. And the situation in Europe today is that if you include the UK some Europeans don’t include the UK, just so you know, but if you include them, then the total amount of unfunded public pension liabilities is nearly 60 trillion US dollars, which is just unfathomable thinking about that.

Mickey: It’s monopoly money at this point. 

Leslie: Yes. Now they don’t have as much debt as we do in the United States, but that’s partly because we used the COVID fund relief to shore up a bunch of our pension funds. So we have 5 trillion in unfunded public pensions with 330 million people. I think Europe has about 400 million people. They have 60 trillion in unfunded public pensions, but we have 30 trillion in debt, so we’re not in great shape, but we’re better than they are by a long shot. And the real issue is that in the fall of 2019, the US banks, this is people may remember that there was something called a repo market crisis. When banks want to park money overnight in something called the overnight lending window, the overnight window, they can do so overnight or a day or two days, maybe three days. But it’s usually very short-term, and they do it at almost zero rates because it’s low risk. You’re dealing with, you know, trading between two big banks. Well, what happened was the US banks would no longer assume the risk of dealing with the European banks because they didn’t know that they were safe. They didn’t want to take on the counterparty risk of dealing with the European banks. And so the Fed had to step in and take over dealing with those banks. So basically, the Fed became the central bank to the world, okay? So this is a huge issue, a huge issue! And it means that the Fed is not doing what’s in the best interest of the United States because they were if they would have raised rates years ago, they kept them low because of what’s going on in Europe and also because all these emerging markets have borrowed money in dollars and the dollar is very strong as the dollar strengthens that means that they have more to repay in their own local currency. And so these are the two major components of the problem. And this, in my view, is the major explanation for what is going on in the world. Why is this happening, and why it’s happening now? It’s because they need to reset the system, and the way that they are going to sell that to the public is by saying you guys are all so indebted, and we just want to do the right thing by you, and we’re just going to forgive all your debt, and everything’s going to be peachy and look the other way because we’re also going to forgive all of our debt. That’s what the Great Reset is. It’s to get rid of all of their debt, and they are using climate change, Covid, supply chains, war, all these things as their excuse for it. But what’s really going to happen is if they are going to tell all the people we’re going to forgive your debt, your mortgage, your credit cards, your everything, we’re going to forgive it all, and we’re going to also forgive ours. So that’s the way that they make it palatable to the public. And the reason for this is, think about it, if these 400 million Europeans wake up one day and find that their pensions are gone, all that they’d been promised, what’s going to happen?

Mickey: Yeah, it’d be a revolution. 

Leslie: History tells us it’s going to be pretty ugly for the people who created the problem, right?

Mickey: Justifiably so. 

Leslie: Yeah, they’re going to get dragged out into the streets, and you know, who knows what will happen to them then. It’s not going to be a pretty thing. And so they essentially know that they are; they’ve painted themselves into a corner that they can never escape. And so they are doing everything that they can in order to make it seem like, oh, all the problems are because of Covid. No, that’s not right. It’s because of your profligate spending and your insane policy to lower rates from zero to negative, meaning you have a hundred thousand dollars, you put it in the bank in Europe, and you have to pay money to hold it there.

Mickey: Wow. 

Leslie: That’s what it means. Negative interest rates.

Mickey: Wow.

Leslie: So they destroyed their bond markets, and the European central bank owns almost half of all the outstanding Euro-denominated debt. So who is the incremental buyer? Who’s the marginal buyer when they have to actually raise money to finance themselves? There isn’t one, and they can’t raise rates because they’ll destroy their own balance sheet. So they’re in a pickle because they need to raise interest rates in order to entice investors in, but they can’t do so because it will destroy their own balance sheet because they own all the debt. 

Mickey: So this is specific to Europe you’re talking about but it’s on its way to the US also?

Leslie: Well, the US is not in as bad of a shape because the US doesn’t own half of its debt. The Fed does not own all that debt. The ECB does. The Fed can finance itself, but the European Central Bank can’t anymore because they, one, can’t raise rates and, two, they don’t have any marginal buyers of their debt, really. And for people who don’t understand that governments issue bonds all the time when old bonds mature, they roll it over into new bonds to keep financing themselves. And it grows over time because they keep raising the debt ceilings. In the US, that’s not a problem because the federal government doesn’t own all of the US debt. It’s owned by countries and investors and all sorts of things, right? In Europe, the ECB owns nearly half of all the European-denominated debt, so that’s a major problem. They can’t roll to somebody new it’s themselves. 

Mickey: Wow. So, for clarification’s sake, when you say, I know you haven’t gotten there yet, but if there was a situation where in Europe, the US, or both where they forgave all debts, which obviously percentage-wise is going to be a lot more for the people in charge than it is for the average consumer. How would that rescue, for example, the pension system?

Leslie: Well, that’s exactly where I want to go. So, Mickey, the whole point of this is that they need a Great Reset, but they have to put certain things in place before they can have the Great Reset. People are not going to swallow this, that all of a sudden my pension is gone and all the things that you promised me are gone unless they’re forced to. And so I’m sure you’ve seen that minute-and-a-half video that actually the World Economic Forum produced 2018. What’s the first one, you will own nothing and be happy. 

Mickey: Absolutely, yep.

Leslie: In exchange for having debt forgiveness. They’re going to expect you to give over your assets to them, and then they will give you, “give” you Universal basic income, okay UBI. And they have been trialing Universal Basic Income pilot programs all over Europe and the United States even, for about five years, maybe five-six years. They were doing them in California five or six years ago. I was like, that’s really interesting. And most people would have no idea about it. So basically, what you need and what is happening here is that there is going to be a Central Bank Digital Currency. And there’s going to be a digital identification, okay? And everything, everything that I’m talking about, hinges on those two things. So you have a central bank digital currency and a Digital Identification, and then your digital ID will be connected to your vaccine and medical records, your identification, driver’s license, passport, voter ID, banking, insurance, employment, and everything. Anything to engage in society and your Universal Basic Income. And here’s the thing, if you don’t do what you’re told by the authorities, they can just turn off your Universal Basic Income and turn off your digital ID. You can’t go to the grocery store. You can’t go to a concert. You can’t work. You can’t travel. You can’t do anything without your digital identification, and it’s even worse than that because they’re using part of the pretext is climate change. And so what they’re saying that they’re going to do is that they will, they’ve created something called programmable money, and this has come out of the bank of England. So this hinges clearly on digital currency, programmable money, they can say, okay, you’re going to get $2,500 a month that’s your living expense or whatever it will be. It’s not going to be largely different I think; actually, I’ll go down into that in a second. You get programmable money, and you’ll get $2,500 a month. And on a daily basis, you will get X number of carbon credits for climate credits. And if you drive too far, they’ll switch them off. This is why I think there’s a big push to go to electric vehicles because they can control it.

Mickey: Wow.

Leslie: And so basically it’s a social credit system that hinges on climate and what you consume if you eat too much meat and they don’t like that, then they’ll program the money to switch off. So you’ll only be able to spend X amount on red meat or butter. , I think those are health foods, but they think those are bad. They’ve been demonizing them for decades, right?

Mickey: Yep. 

Leslie: And I think it’s all part of this whole agenda and so people aren’t going to accept this unless they’re forced. And there’s that saying, don’t ever let a good crisis go to waste, right? And that you can get people to accept all sorts of things during a crisis. They would never accept under normal times. Well, let’s look at just the last 20 years. 9/11 happened in 2001, 45 days afterward, the Patriot Act was passed, and the Patriot Act allowed warrantless surveillance of Americans. Two weeks later, the Model State Emergency Health Powers Act legislation was introduced that legislation accords extraordinary power to Public Health Departments, State Health Departments, and governors in the event of a health emergency. How convenient, literally it was just introduced and it was introduced two weeks after the Patriot Act. And it’s been ratified in whole or in part by 43 states. In 2005, you had the PREP Act. The PREP Act allows the Secretary of Health and Human Services to declare a health emergency. And after that’s done to provide a liability shield to any company that produces what’s called a medical countermeasure, like a PCR test, a mask, or a vaccine.

Mickey: A vaccine, yep. 

Leslie: Okay, and then as you move forward, in 2013, they repealed something called the Smith Mundt Act, which allowed, well, first of all, in 2012, they suspended essentially the writ of habeas Corpus. You can now be held and not be able to appear before a judge and to protest wrongful arrest. You can be held indefinitely as long as you’re deemed an enemy or a domestic terrorist, all sorts of things. And we’ve just seen how they’ve now just equated, they literally said that people who challenged the legitimacy of the last election or who challenged the official Covid narrative, are domestic terrorists. This is what came out of the Department of Homeland Security. So we know that’s all happening. So 2012 writ of habeas Corpus was suspended in 2013. You had the prohibition on propagandizing Americans. That means that they legalized lying to the American public by the government, and the media. And in 2016, they set up a program to propagandize and funded it, okay? So this is all, this has all happened in the last 20 years, and it’s getting us to the place where we are now. So then they have their next crisis. They had the financial crisis in 2019, and it’s like, oh, gee, September, we have got to do something because the system’s going to implode, and we’re going to lose all power and control and enter Covid stage left. 

Mickey: Another convenient situation. 

Leslie: And what ends up happening? Oh, well, I’m going to introduce COVID. We’re not going to use vaccine passports. No, no, no, no. And that’s what happens. That’s exactly what happens, right? Everything that we have been, that those of us in the health freedom and vaccine safety awareness sphere have been saying for two decades, all rolled out. We were called conspiracy theorists, and then everything came true. And so the reason that the vaccine passport is so important is because it conditions the public to accept identification and centralization, disclosure of all of their private information, and centralization to one data point, right? So it’s an installation of a digital control grid under the guise of a health crisis. 

Mickey: And making them comfortable with the concept of demonizing, anyone who doesn’t go along with that. 

Leslie: That too! It de-stigmatizes taking money from the government. So think about the paycheck protection plan.

Mickey: Yes. 

Leslie: Okay. So, de-stigmatize is that people will be taking UBI in the future. It de-stigmatizes it. I mean, can you imagine in January of 2020, if somebody walked up to you and said, do you have erectile dysfunction? But now people will walk up to you and say, have you been jabbed? What’s the difference? You talk about private medical information, but now it’s socially acceptable and you are not just crazy if you don’t comply, you are a menace to society. You are dangerous. These are the tactics of the Nazis. I’m sorry to say it, but it’s true. This is what happened. They called Jews disease carriers, dangers, and vermin, and they sequestered them into ghettos. 

Mickey: Yep. And they didn’t have a 10th of the technology that these sociopaths have now.

Leslie: No, exactly Mickey. And so basically, the vaccine passport was the way to condition people to accept that government can have information on us. And then what’s going to happen in my view is digital. My son goes to the University of Chicago, he was here over spring break in March, and I said to him, you watch the next thing that’s going to come out. Is there going to be digital attacks or they’re going to be cyber attacks on infrastructure and other assets? And he’s like, oh, come on, mom. And I was like, no, seriously, well, two weeks ago, maybe it was last week. He emailed me. He got a message from the University saying that they needed to be careful about cyber security and all these different things they needed to comply with. And that the threat of cyber attacks was elevated and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And why are they doing that? To teach the public that you don’t just need a vaccine passport, but you actually need a digital ID without which you cannot access the internet, right? It’s unsafe for us to not have a global digital identification. It’s not safe because terrorists will attack our infrastructure and conduct cyber attacks, and therefore, we need to know this information. Do you see what they are teaching people? And then, once they get everybody to get the digital ID, and they’ve launched their digital currency, then it’s basically game over. And we don’t need any of this, they need it.

Mickey: No, I can see that. Absolutely and the irony also of enforcing us to be so dependent of being online when telling us that cyber-attacks are a thing like it takes an incredible amount of programming, but when you lay it out like that, I mean, obviously, we could go back to the beginning of public relations industries and propaganda all the way back to world war one, but in the definitely since 9/11. I remember watching news segments where they would interview someone who was in line waiting two or three hours to get through security, and to a person they would say, yeah, it’s annoying, but if it keeps us safe, I’m all for it. And that was 20 years ago. So it’s like this slow, insidious conditioning. That gets us to the point where people are, and I see people who are vaccinated saying that the unvaccinated shouldn’t even have access to medical care. Like you can’t turn people into that overnight. So at some point, before we wrap up, I do want to talk about what each of us can do and what powers we still have. So if there’s more you want to add to this, though, I’m fascinated, and I’m learning a lot, but I definitely still want to end on a note of giving listeners inspiration and direct steps that we can take too because we have the power, as you just said, they need this, we don’t.

Leslie: Exactly. They need it. We don’t, and this is all for them. And yes, it’s bleak, and yes, it’s terrible. And yes, our political, economic, and social systems are being collapsed deliberately. That is all true. But- but, they are the few, we are the many, and there are so many things we can do, right? Globalism is the problem. This is my mantra these days: “Globalism is the problem. Localism is the solution.” And so we can do so much to offset this. It’s terrifying. I spent the first half of 2020 crying, literally because I knew what was happening. And I felt like Chicken Little, except you know, that the sky is falling, except the sky really was falling, right? And most people would think I was nuts. Now people don’t think I’m so nuts, you know, but anyway, the point is that, what do we do about all of this? I think that it’s very simple. We start creating, and I’m being very, very serious. Our local systems, you build parallel systems outside of the old system. So I am working with a couple of groups to try and build a local healthcare system. That’s truly about healthcare, not sick care or drug care. That’s what medical our medical system is; 40,000 people are injured every single day by our hospitals. Every day in America, okay? And depending on how you look at it, the first, second, or third largest killer in America is our healthcare system.

Mickey: Yes. I’ve been writing about that a lot recently.

Leslie: It’s crazy. But the thing is, we can create truly integrated healthcare systems that focus on dealing with and using all the natural healing arts to address all the chronic conditions because those are where the real problems are. And then we have, you know, acute and emergency medical care should you get in a car crash. But it should all be together all under one roof and all equally important because they should work together. We shouldn’t be. You know, we know that we over-prescribe antibiotics. We shouldn’t be hitting every single issue with a freaking sledgehammer and that’s what we do. And it’s almost 20% of our GDP; that’s just insane. Literally, that’s where our healthcare system is, our medical care system, the medical complex. It’s not about health. So you build that, and I’m working on that and I want to create a template and we’ll put it up on our website in the next couple of months on Health Freedom Defense, or probably under resources. But I want to create a template to help others do the same thing in their communities. So you create your own healthcare system, a real health healthcare system, okay, based on herbs and supplements and homeopathy and chiropractic and all these other things. Also, with Western medicine in there as the component for acute situations, okay. You build your own schools, literally create a school outside of the existing system based on true education, not on indoctrination, because that’s what our schools are doing. You know, James Madison said that our system of government only works for a populace that is moral, and educated. And if you look at what’s been happening with our school systems and our entertainment, there has been a clear degradation of both. 

Mickey: On both fronts, for sure. 

Leslie: Yes. And so this is one of the ways that they have us believing all sorts of insane things, right? So, anyway, build your own school. You know, up until the public schools, we had a 98% literacy rate in this country and they were all private,98%. It was way better than it is now. Most, a huge chunk of kids, especially poor kids and kids of color, can’t do eighth-grade math. This is an utter failure and it’s by design. It’s not an accident. None of this is an accident, right? So you, can also, I also advocate that people grow their own food and develop a local foodshed? 

Mickey: I concur.

Leslie: They can really build your own credit union or local banks. And if you already have them in place, then take any money out of the major money center banks. I don’t care about who they are, the big national commercial banks. Take your money out and put them in the small quality credit unions and local banks. Also, you can create a local currency. I know that sounds crazy, but I also advocate that people get all their money out of safety deposit boxes and that they have three to 12 months of bills in cash, but the big things that’s more to save yourself. The big thing is to start creating your own local parallel system. So when there’s collapses, you’re not left high and dry. 

Mickey: That makes a whole lot of sense.

Leslie: There’s much we can do. 

Mickey: Yeah, it makes a whole lot of sense and it seems like it’s interesting. Just today, I was reminded of the Buckminster fuller quote, where it says that the only way to take on a corrupt system is to build a system that’s more attractive than it. You’re not necessarily going to go head-to-head with Klaus Schwab and the World Economic Forum. But if you create a paradigm and a system that is more attractive to everyday people, they will come to you because people don’t want to do this. And the first time, like when you were talking about the social credit system and access to the internet, like obviously, this interview would be enough for you and I to lose internet permissions for X amount of time. And I think that I’m assuming and believing with all my heart that they’re overestimating how much control they have over us. Yes, the past two years have been embarrassing how humans so easily acquiesced to the fear matrix, but I don’t think that’s indicative of all humanity. And I don’t think it’s indicative of long-term. And if we’re able to get this information out there and as you just stated, create these alternative people-powered, paradigm s they are going to be very surprised at how many people reject what they’re trying to do and go back to the basics of what worked prior to this insane system that we have now. 

Leslie: Yeah. Listen, I have to say, I think that the fact that they didn’t succeed in implementing, they wanted to implement all these things by 2022. They knew they had to. By the end of 2021, I think they wanted it done, but they couldn’t get it done because especially in the United States, so many people resisted. You know, only about 70%, that’s a lot, but listen, 30% of the public adults never got a single jab. 

Mickey: Yep.

Leslie: Okay. What do you do? That’s not an easily dismissible portion of the public. And if you look at the boosters, fewer than 50% of adults have got them. Why? That is an utter failure. And so now they’re on to stage two. They hoped, I believe that they would implement the entire digital control grid by the end of 2021, but they failed. They knew they had to because you have elections in France. You have elections in the United States. You’ve got elections in, and I forget so many countries coming up this year, Germany in the fall or in the summer, maybe in August, and they know that they are on the ropes, right? And so I think what’s really happened is that they’ve had to now change gears to their second plan, which is scaring people on climate and scaring people on cybersecurity in order to get to the next stage. But I think they will fail, and I take a huge amount of hope from the fact that they failed at stage one and that fewer than 50% of American adults have gotten a booster. That’s a great thing, and the thing is that means more than 50% of American adults either never got one or realize how dangerous this thing is and that they don’t want it. That is incredibly encouraging. And the thing is, it’s not just about the jab, right? It’s about what it says about their viewpoint, really their trust in the system. And I just read something, you know, Alex Berenson is? He put something out the other day that somebody had submitted something to him, he’s a professor, and he asked his graduate students. How many of you trust the public health system? Nobody raised their hands. Nobody. 

Mickey: I saw that, and he said a big chunk of them burst out laughing.

Leslie: Yes, exactly. And so what does that tell you? I mean, so to me, what I’m saying is that the fact that it’s not even 50% got the booster isn’t the really telling point, right? It’s the fact that they’ve lost any confidence or faith in the ruling class. And that speaks very strongly to their limited, I don’t want to say lifespan, but they have limited reach at this point and they’re going to have to resort to more and more authoritarian, tools in order to implement their agenda. And the more they do that, the more they’re just going to anger more and more people. You know 30% of the people will never join us, but we’ve got a big portion now. 

Mickey: Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. The more, the more they’re forced to show their hand in the most aggressive way than even the people now who just refuse to accept what they see. Many of them will be like, all right, this is undeniable now. And even just based on going back to the vaccine real quickly. Let’s say the numbers, the official numbers are roughly 70% of adults got two jabs. That’s 70, but how many of them got a fake back card, for that matter? I truly wonder whether it’s 50% of Americans that actually got them. You know, some of them would just play in the system and I take heart in the fact that there’s a lot more people out there, including young people who, when you see the memes that gen Z are putting out there, they’re totally hip to what’s going on and they recognize this. And they’re the ones who would have laughed in that anecdote from Alex Berenson and if someone says, do you trust the public health system? That’s a laughable concept and that’s what we need that spirit of seeing things clearly, and that they could lay the foundation of which we can create a much better system. And it’s not Pollyanna; it’s actually, it’s just required. And I think that people throughout history have done, like, when revolutions happen that it’s, it looks like they look impossible until they start to happen. And then they’re inevitable. And I feel like what we’re witnessing now is simultaneously horrifying when we see the extent that these psychopaths will go, but also just motivating when we see how many people will just stand their ground and to keep and just not comply. It’s absolutely inspirational.

Leslie: And Mickey, the best thing. That’s why I said I spent the first half of 2020 sobbing. I literally was just like grieving and fearful about everything that was happening in the last six months to a year. Well, so I started Health Freedom Defense Fund in 2020, and I’ve filed tons of lawsuits. And we’re suing the federal government over their travel mask mandate, over vaccine mandates on federal employees and for federal contractors and subcontractors, and suing the Los Angeles Unified School District, the City of San Francisco. The state of Oregon and so many more and so please, people who want to support our work, you can do so by donating at But my point is that I went from grieving and being fearful to actually shifting my perspective. And that’s what I hope listeners do shift your perspective because here’s the thing. Yes, it’s horrible. Yes, it’s scary. Yes, there’s uncertainty, but you know what? We get to rebuild and we get to rebuild in integrity with what our founding fathers believed in. I’ve been railing against the system for 20 years against GMOs and Roundup and mercury amalgams, the medical system, and, fluoride in water. I gave a speech seven years ago that I said that we’re at war with our government. People were like, yeah, right. And I’m like, no, come on. Which of you wanted GMOs? How many of you want to GMO salmon? How many of you want Roundup? How many of you want fluoride and your water? Right? None of us voted for that. And this has all been pushed on us, foisted on us by the ruling class. Now what’s happening is yes, the system’s coming down, but we get to rebuild and we get to rebuild something that we really want, and that serves us, not those at the very top. And so I take a huge amount of inspiration and hope for that. I have a 19-year-old son, and all I want to do is rebuild something that’s better for me and for him and his life, you know? 

Mickey: I couldn’t agree more. I mean, and I literally just last week posted something on my sub stack in which I said that we could look at it, that we are the luckiest generation of all because we’re in a position to fight the most important fight, which is survival. We are the ones who have been thrust into this scenario. And if we, not if when we step up, we can create changes that will impact the world more than any changes in history. And I feel like they have overplayed their hand like you said, there, there might be 30% of the people that are really hard to get to, but the bulk of people are starting to come around, and the more desperate that these ruling elites are, the more they will overplay their hands and actually turn people against them that’s where information like you’re sharing comes in handy. Cause everything you said in this podcast would be impossible almost impossible to find in a Google search, at least on the first page, because they’ll prioritize other information. And we just need to encourage people to find other sources, to double check their sources, to double check everything they heard on this podcast, for that matter, but to do their homework because when they’re informed and motivated, that’s when the positive change has. 

Leslie: A hundred percent. And what Buckminster Fuller said exactly was you don’t fight an existing paradigm by challenging it. You build a new one and render the old one obsolete, right? This is why I’m advocating that people build their own system because it will be clear. That their own parallel local system is superior to the existing system, and one, it means that you’ll survive, right? Two, you are building community, and three, you are building a path forward. You’re helping to show other people you’re lighting the way. 

Mickey: What greater mission could any human have? I mean, that is wonderful. I would love in once your website has up more specifics about creating these alternative structures, I would love to have you again where we focus on that where you can share some of the nuts and bolts types of stuff that your group is coming up with. When people say, well, what do I do? I want to fight back, and you’re going to have a lot of very useful, direct, at very least, directions to point them in and then trust them to go from there. But for now, I just want to say thank you for connecting all these dots in a very clear and concise manner. At times I was just I wasn’t interjecting because I was just paying such close attention to make sure I got everything you were saying. And I deeply appreciate your time here and all the work that you and your group do. I will have all the information in the show notes, but just to make sure everybody gets it. Could you just say the relevant website and contact information one more time, please? 

Leslie: Sure. It’s, and you can donate and contact us there. You can see more extensive presentations and blogs and interviews, and also a big resource page, like an FAQ and resource page where you can get a lot of questions answered, and we’re going to be putting stuff up. One of the things we’re doing is exploring PMAs, private membership associations, private membership agreements, where you’re actually creating something outside the system, but we’re not a hundred percent that’s the right way to go. So we’re working on that, and we will be posting that in the coming weeks and months. 

Mickey: Fantastic. 

Leslie: Thank you so much for having me. It’s been a pleasure and an honor talking with you. 

Mickey: Likewise, thank you so much for your time and for all you do.