Skip to main content

Leslie on the Kim Monson Show

By July 15, 2022September 5th, 2022No Comments

Allen Thomas joins Kim in the studio to discuss his latest essay, The Human Inclination Towards Liberty. 

In his essay, The Human Inclination Towards Liberty, Allen Thomas looks at human nature and whether or not human nature includes Liberty. Thomas notes that in these tasking times it can often seem as though the natural human tendency is not towards freedom but towards power. Yet he asks, “How could Jefferson write that this truth of Liberty was self-evident without it being ingrained in human nature?”

Interview with Leslie Manookian, founder of the Health Freedom Defense Fund discussing childhood vaccines, and the Citizens Petition to the FDA filed by HFDF/DailyClout regarding FDA’s authorization of COVID injections for infants and toddlers.

We have filed a Citizen’s Petition with the FDA asking them to revoke or at the very least suspend their authorization of these shots for infants and toddlers. The reason we have done that is because they’ve broken the law, they have ignored the data, they have been dishonest about the public comments, it’s unbelievable what they have done.

Leslie Manookian – President, HFDF

Allen – 29:55 (and throughout entire hour)
Leslie – 1:10:55

Click here to listen or read the conversation below.

Kim: Welcome back to the Kim Monson show. I’m Kim Monson. Be sure and check out our website, that’s Sign up for our weekly newsletter there, and you can email me at as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We are an independent voice, and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. In studio with me is Alan Thomas. He has a great essay that will roll out in the newsletter this weekend, the human inclination towards Liberty, and Mary Alpers was just on the line. I tell you, she just rocked it with her comments today, and they’re great partners of the show, three Points Financial. So for looking for your financial independence, they’re the people to work with for sure.

On the line with me is Leslie Manookian, we’ve not met in person, but I feel like she’s a dear friend. We got connected during the whole reaction to COVID, and she started Health Freedom Defense Fund. And they actually were the group that sued and was successful in freeing us from having to wear masks on airplanes and buses and whatever. Leslie Manookian, and welcome to the show.

Leslie: Good morning, Kim. It’s great to be with you. 

Kim: Oh, it’s great to have you, and I guess the last time we talked, it was several months ago, and the decision had just come down regarding the mandate on public transportation. But, instead, they’ve decided to appeal that, right?

Leslie: Yes. Well, it’s very clear that the government didn’t like what the judge ruled because the judge essentially struck a blow in what’s called the administrative state. Right, it’s this unelected, unaccountable administrative bureaucracy that exists. Some people call the force for the state, and they have been amassing power and infiltrating all aspects of our lives for many, many decades, but they’re certainly having their wings clipped one by our judge and then by other judges as well, that was just a ruling by the Supreme Court striking down some of the EPAs usurped power. And so basically what’s happening is that the courts are starting to push back and say that these administrators, these bureaucracies don’t have as much power as they are claiming and that the federal government wants them to have, and so they’re pushing back. And what’s happening is DOJ, and the federal government want to retain the power that these administrative agencies have sort of clutched in recent decades. And so they’re defending it. But we’re pretty confident that the 11th circuit, which is where it’s been appealed to, will uphold the lower court’s ruling. 

Kim: Well, I remember again, we talked just shortly after that ruling had come down, and I remember the story of a flight attendant going up and down the aisle right after the news came out and people joyfully throwing their masks into a trash bag, and we need more people to be pushing back. But tell us a little bit about your story. I mean, you were on Wall Street for many years, very successful there. It’s been just a real journey for you to get to this point where you founded Health Freedom Defense Fund. 

Leslie: Yeah, well, I was on Wall Street. I worked for Goldman Sachs and then Alliance capital, running their European growth portfolio management and research businesses. And then I learned about the whole vaccine debate, and I became a mother, and I decided I was going to make a documentary film. So I made a documentary film on the vaccine debate called The Greater Good, which you can watch at It was an award-winning film. We received an award even from the University of Alabama, Birmingham, for our treatment of an important issue to public health. And I made that movie and, you know, I’ve been researching-

Kim: And that was a while ago. When did you release that, Leslie?

Leslie: That was released April 2nd, 2011, so 11 years ago. 

Kim: Wow. 

Leslie: And that movie was, I think, in some respects, a seminal event in health debates and the discussion about corruption in the medical complex. And the reason for that is that most people don’t realize that our regulatory agencies are actually captured by the industry they are supposed to be regulating. They received billions of dollars. The pharmaceutical industry pays user fees to the FDA to the tune of $2.6 billion this year, and that amounts to 65% of the salaries of FDA’s drug approvers. So the drug approvers, 65% of their salaries are being paid by the pharmaceutical industry. They know who butters their bread, so they approve in line with what they’re being instructed to do. CDC and FDA even partner with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. CDC takes millions and millions of dollars from the pharmaceutical industry and other vested industries. These are not health agencies protecting your interest. They are doing the bidding of these special interests that have captured them, and it’s really important that people understand this and so this was one of the minor things that we investigated in the movie. But the other thing is that most people don’t know this, that no childhood vaccine on the schedule today has ever been tested against a placebo, NONE, and federal health officials refuse to do a study comparing the health outcomes of unvaccinated children to vaccinated children in a big study. The small studies have all shown that those children who are unvaccinated are healthier than vaccinated children. And those of us who are health freedom and health safety advocates just want to see proper research done so that parents and individuals can make informed choices based on the true science, and these health agencies are refusing to do this research. So I did that, and then that brings you to 2020. And when 2020 unfolded, it was very clear to me what was going to happen, which is that this was going to be used, this crisis was going to be used as a pretext to enact all sorts of draconian measures which would strip us of our rights and freedoms. And I said to my husband, probably January 4th, this is what’s coming. And he kind of laughed at me, and of course, we all know what happened. And so, in the early stages of 2020, I founded Health Freedom Defense Fund because I was inspired- led to do something to push back. And I felt that some amazing attorneys had been brought into my life who were very accomplished and successful commercial litigators, and I felt that it was something that would help. And so, we filed, I don’t know how many lawsuits at this point, well over a dozen lawsuits, pushing back against mask mandates, vaccine mandates at the federal level, at the state level at schools, and at businesses. And we’ve got many more. We’re actually Kim, you may not know this, but we filed, we’ve been collaborating with Naomi Wolf of Daily Clout, and we filed a citizen petition with FDA on the 5th of January, and we’ll be following up with a lawsuit. This is a perfect example of an agency not doing its job, not following the law and overstepping its bounds, or abdicating its responsibility. I can tell you more about that if that’s of interest. 

Kim: Most definitely. So why don’t we go to break, Alan Thomas, before we go, did you have a quick question for Leslie right now?

Alan: Oh, no. I mean t The Greater Good, that sounds like a great one. It reminded me of, there’s a new documentary, Dopesick, where they kind of hint at what she was talking about, about the FDA kind of being beholden to these pharmaceuticals and it’s flabbergasting, and it just opens your mind to, Hey, they’re basically paying off our government officials.

Kim: Right, and then it’s not brilliant. It’s brilliant in a diabolical way. So then, if you can get government to force people to use your product and have government many times use taxpayer dollars to buy the product. I mean, it’s kind of insidious, actually. Let’s go to break. 

Leslie: Can I just say the CDC is the largest purchaser of vaccines in the country? They buy about $5 billion worth of vaccines for their Vaccines For Children program for kids who are not well off. 

Kim: Right.

Leslie: Right, so disadvantaged kids, and then they’re also charged with monitoring and ensuring the safety of those vaccines. How is that possible? And they own patents, and the vaccine industry has zero liability for the vaccines that they produce. It is a serious mess.

Kim: Well, it is a serious mess. Okay, before we go a break, I just have to comment, Leslie I see these young parents that they’re trusting their doctors and the doctors are saying vaccinate your kids, and the vaccine schedule has grown so significantly again, as big pharma has gotten more, more involved in it and, they looked at their doctors, they trust their doctors, the doctors don’t question, the CDC, the CDC is in the pockets of big pharma, and our children are being the Guinea pigs for this Leslie. 

Leslie: Yes. The vaccine schedule tripled after Congress passed the national childhood vaccine injury act in 1986, which indemnified the vaccine industry from responsibility- liability for their vaccines. That’s what happened. 

Kim: Yes. And Alan and I were talking in the first segment about freedom, inches by inches. It’s also been inch by inch that there’s been this big encroachment, but we now see what’s going on, and so that’s why, what you’re doing, Leslie with Health Freedom Defense Fund, so many people having the courage to step forward and talk about these issues is so important. So let’s go to break. When we come back, we’ll continue the conversation with Leslie Manookian. Allen Thomas is in the studio. Stay tuned.

{Commercial Break}

I’m gonna date myself, and I told Steve not to say anything about this, but Leslie, I did not get the vaccines for measles, mumps, or chicken pox. I actually got all of those when I was a kid, and so-

Leslie: Good for you!

Kim: So anyway, I’m so concerned I mentioned this about these young parents, they care so deeply about their children, and they’re going to doctors who care about their patients. But I think that there has been propaganda that’s been pushed down by the CDC to these doctors for so long, and then also, through the whole COVID reaction, the threat of losing their licenses, we now have healthcare providers that are standing up and pushing back and looking at these issues. And one of them, I have a new sponsor, Roots Medical. They wanna look at the complete- getting to the root of your healthcare, which I love about that. One of their members is a founder of Colorado Healthcare Providers for Freedom. So, there are many healthcare providers that are finally starting, I think, to push back on this, Leslie. 

Leslie: Well, first of all, Kim, I wanna say that what you’re talking about and touching on is so incredibly important. Parents go to doctors because they think that they are experts who will share with them the science and give them the best advice possible. They trust them. And that image of doctors being trustworthy has been cultivated over decades. Now, I believe that most doctors are well-intentioned. Unfortunately, they don’t realize that they’re being controlled and actually deceived. And the reason I say that is that it’s not just the federal agencies that have been captured. It’s our hospitals. The doctors almost all work for hospital systems now. If they don’t abide by what the hospitals tell them and the hospitals get money, federal funds, then they can’t work in that hospital system. They’re taught in medical school that there is no life outside of hospital systems, that you can’t be an independent practitioner. That’s what they’re taught these days. But then you’ve got- the hospitals are captured, the medical journals are captured. The American Medical Association, and the American Academy of Pediatrics, these are trade groups that take millions and millions of dollars from the pharmaceutical industry and then issue what they say are their opinions. But they’re not unbiased opinions. And then you’ve got something that’s really, truly insidious and pernicious, and that is the Confederation of State Licensing Boards. There is a group of State Licensing Boards that operate across the country, and these State Licensing Boards, which actually operate in each individual state, they dictate to some extent what policy is, and if you violate what their policy- that’s what happened under COVID. They have told doctors they’ve sent them letters. If you speak out and say that these shots are ineffective or they’re dangerous, we will haul you in front of the State Licensing Board, review your license, and potentially revoke it. So these doctors are under immense pressure, but they’re being deceived by the hospitals, the universities who are taking money from big pharma, and then the journals who are actually owned as well, not to mention the federal agencies they are out and outlying. CDC has posted on its website for years and years that vaccines don’t cause autism. They don’t have any science to substantiate that they were sued, and they were forced to take that statement down, but they’ve been saying it for decades. So my point is there is a massive medical complex, this apparatus that is in place that is misinforming doctors, even though those doctors are well-intentioned telling them that there’s no science to any of these debates or these issues. And so the doctors are telling the parents what they believe, but they’re incredibly misinformed. Does that relieve doctors of their responsibility? No, I don’t think it does. It puts the onus back on the parent, and all I can say is buyer beware is the most important principle that you can possibly remember as a parent. You spend a ton of time investigating your car seat. You better do multiples of that investigating childhood vaccines because you will be stunned by what you discover. 

Kim: So Leslie, we saw that the FDA just approved a COVID vaccine for babies, six months, toddlers. Let’s talk a little bit about that because I had Dr. Robert Malone on the other day, and I asked him for his final thought at the end of the show. He said, don’t get your kids the COVID jab was what he said. What are your thoughts about that, Leslie? 

Leslie: Well, I concur with Robert Malone; of course, I’m not a doctor, and in this country, it is illegal for someone who’s not a medical doctor to give medical advice. So I can’t say what he said, but I can say that we have filed a citizen petition with the FDA, asking them to revoke or, at the very least, suspend their authorization of these shots for infants and toddlers. And the reason that we’ve done that is because they’ve broken the law. They have ignored the data. They have been dishonest about the public comments. It’s unbelievable what they’ve done. So we’ve asked that they revoke or suspend the ruling, but they have actually broken the law because they are required by law to post comments and to review and consider those comments before they vote. They received over 130,000 public comments. I think they closed it around June 14th or June 13th, maybe, and they started their meetings on the 14th and 15th. There’s no way that they reviewed 130,000 comments. They’re also required by law to post those comments. They posted one. And the committees get the comments at the same time as the public sees them posted. So they didn’t consider them; they’re required by law to do that. They’re also required by law to consider the data and the science. But what’s really jaw-dropping about the clinical trials of these little kids, there were 4,500 kids enrolled in Pfizer’s clinical trial. 3,000 of those children, two-thirds of them didn’t finish the trial. Why not? No one knows. It’s been ignored. They excluded 97% of the cases of COVID during these little kids’ clinical trial, 97% of them, and they ended up looking at three children who had COVID in the vaccine arm and six kids, I think, or seven kids who had COVID in the placebo arm and they concluded it was effective because of that. But they excluded 97% of the cases. Why? They’re required by law to consider all the data. They are ignoring the data that, I think, 34 kids in the vaccine arm had severe COVID and none in the placebo arm. Why? It might have even been 43, and I might be flipping that. My point is they are ignoring the data that more kids got COVID in the vaccine arm than in the placebo. That more kids got severe COVID in the vaccine arm than in the placebo arm, and this is illegal. It’s also what you’d call- you know, it’s not rational or logical, and it’s arbitrary and capricious because they can’t just implement a rule which completely ignores the data, and that’s what they’ve done. So on top of that, of course, these little kids have zero need because they have such robust innate immunity. They’ve got strong thymus glands, they’ve got robust, innate immunity, which protects them, and they have almost zero risk in that. In fact, the research shows that they have less risk from COVID than they do from seasonal flu. So why in the world would you vaccinate these children, and how in the world can FDA justify authorizing these shots for all these kids when they have almost no risk? It’s insane. And the thing is, the problem is, that they are such a rogue agency at this point the only way to hold them accountable is to sue them, and so that’s what we will do, just like we sued the federal government over CDCs rogue ness when they issued a nationwide mask mandate on airplanes, despite the evidence. 

Kim: Wow, so you’ve got a lot going on then. I guess one other question before we go to break, Leslie’s gonna stay on the line for our call-ins, as well as Alan’s in studio, is something that I’ve been very concerned about, and we’re going to address this with some parents next month on the show. But out here in Colorado, there’s legislation that’s been passed that is putting health clinics in schools, and it’s under the guise of dental and a variety of things. And there actually are health departments now, or health clinics in schools. I see tremendous danger with that, Leslie, one over here on the whole transgender agenda, because there’s also been a law that’s passed here in Colorado that will allow 12-year-olds to be able to give consent for certain drugs. I see that as a tremendous danger. It’s way out of the lane of what government’s supposed to be doing. Your comment on that, Leslie. 

Leslie: Well, Kim, what your listeners probably don’t know is that this is an agenda. That there is a view that the parents of the children, the natural parents, shouldn’t be the parents, the biological parents; rather, the state is the parent. The government is the parent. And in California, it took them about eight or nine years in order to destroy parental rights. They actually issued, the legislature, the assembly in California, started out with a law allowing children as young as 12 to receive the Gardasil vaccine and hepatitis B vaccines, and they said, well, they’re for sexually transmitted diseases, and so we think it’s important that they have access to them. But don’t worry, we’re never, ever gonna intrude on parental rights. Well, they did exactly that, and they have been attacking parental rights for a decade in California. In New York, they’ve done the same thing. In Washington, DC, they tried to introduce a law that would allow 11-year-olds to consent to any vaccination, and this is just this past year. Any vaccination and the parent would never be allowed to know about it. There would be two separate tracks of medical records. So if your child died from a vaccine and you had no idea, you would never know. Never know! So if you asked me the reason that they are putting these health clinics in there, it’s just an agenda to destroy the fabric of American society, right? It makes people crazy. It frustrates and angers parents. It makes them more prone to, I think, doing something extreme, and then they can call any parent who stands up to protect their child an extremist. We already know that they’re trying to connect those who believe in the constitution and American ideals as terrorists, people who stand up for health freedom, who question the safety or the narrative, the COVID narrative and the safety of these COVID shots have been labeled domestic terrorists by the Department of Homeland Security. This is where it’s going. They want those clinics in the schools in order to bypass parental consent. It’s an agenda, and anybody who thinks it’s just for convenience or for your children’s wellbeing has been seriously misguided. So, these are extremely insidious policies, and parents should be up in arms about them. What saddens me is that Americans have been just asleep at the wheel for decades. And that’s how we got where we are, and now we really have to stand up and push back. 

Kim: Well, and when Mary Alpers was talking about hope, people standing up, Leslie, you are really on the forefront. You assess this whole COVID reaction where we were headed. And I as well saw big danger. There’s so much hope, though, in what you are doing, and you have such great courage, and Alan writes these great essays. And so let’s go to break, and when we come back -well, before we do that, though, I wanna give a shout out to the They are raising money to remodel the Marine Memorial out at Sixth and Colfax, and we have to remember our history. That’s why we do our America’s Veteran Story show, and people throughout American history have stood up and had courage and bravery, and we’re talking with Leslie and Alan, and they’re to such people of our generation. So let’s go to break. When we come back, we’ll continue the conversation with Leslie Manookian and Alan Thomas. This is a rare opportunity for you callers to call in and talk to both Leslie or Allen. That number’s 303-477- 5600, that’s 303-477- 5600. And I was talking with one of our listeners the other day, and she said, Kim, I was really nervous when I first started to call in, and she says, I know there’s hundreds of people out there that want to call in, but they’re still nervous, I’m like, have the courage, give us a call. 303 477 5600. We’ll be right back.

It is Friday, and welcome back to the Kim Munson show. I am Kim Munson. Check out our website that’s Sign up for our weekly newsletter there, and you can email me at as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We’re an independent voice, and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. Alan Thomas is here for the second hour as well. And we had talked about in the first hour his essay, The Human Inclination Towards Liberty. Leslie Manookian, Founder of Health Freedom Defense Fund, is on the line, and we’ve got the lines full, so if you call and it’s busy, call back. First caller Johnny in Denver, Johnny in Denver, what’s on your radar?

Johnny: Okay. Sometimes I’m thinking about these words, schools should teach, but now I’m starting to think that maybe the schools shouldn’t teach everything and maybe it should go back to the parents to teach. So I have granddaughters who are becoming 13-year-olds, and so I’m going to their mothers, and I wanna get pushed back from the oldest daughter saying, they’re so smart, they’re so smart. And I said, stop talking stupid. You’re 17; you’re 13 more years smarter than her. I’m even more years smarter than you. Talk to them about this vaccination so they can know that when they have kids, it’d be in their mind to think before they let doctors give their kids these jabs.

Kim: Absolutely. And Johnny, we’ll let Leslie talk about that, but you’re running for State House here in Colorado house district five. Wanted to make sure people know that. So, it’s Johnny J for 

Johnny: Colorado house district five. 

Kim: Okay. So Leslie, what Johnny’s saying is having conversations with our kids about this. That’s probably the first line of defense, correct, Leslie? 

Leslie: 100%, but I think it’s even- you have to also understand that your children are being indoctrinated from the time they’re very young. Sesame Street is being used to indoctrinate your children on all vaccines and the COVID shots. Okay, Sesame Street, other children’s programs, they’re putting these things out in order to make your kids from the time they’re very young think that it’s their part to get a shot. That they’re bad if they don’t, and that these things are safe and that they should trust authority, right? This image of the expert, think about doctors wearing white lab coats. We’re talking in the forties and fifties doctors in lab coats were saying my brand is Camel, right? That image of a doctor in a white lab coat is a carefully curated image designed to make you respect and defer to authority. That’s why they wear white lab coats to separate you. That’s why they use the title Dr. who else gets a title? I mean, lawyers don’t run around saying, Esquire, call me Esquire. It’s just doctors, they hold this special position, and this has been a long-term agenda to cultivate this image that they are somehow above everybody else and that we should defer to them. So we need to understand that this is happening to our children in our schools and all across society in the media. And that we have to remind- I’ve taught my son, he’s 19 since the day he was born, question everything, especially those in authority, even me. I think that’s the message that we have to send to our children. Question, everything, dig deeper. Don’t take anything at face value because if you do, you’re missing all of the nuance, and there is, unfortunately, deception in the media every day. The lead on most of their articles will be very different from the conclusions. Very often, that’s the case, especially when it comes to science and medicine. So you do have to talk to them, but you also have to encourage them to be curious and skeptical and question, that’s my opinion.

Kim: And just to that comment before we get to Walt in Northglenn, is that is something that I realized as I was on my journey, that there are many people that do not have intellectual curiosity. And that is something that we need to foster with those around us. So, hey, Walt in Northglenn welcome to the show.

 Hold on, Walt, go ahead, Leslie. 

Leslie: Curiosity is being crushed out of our children in public school because, you know what? The curious ones, the ones who ask questions, the ones who kind of are more difficult, they are penalized, right? Before we had public school, we had a 98% literacy rate in this country when it was all private and it was all in little communities. Think about Little House On The Prairie. That’s how it was. Nowadays, most kids, I think, who are 12 years old are not literate.

Kim: True. 

Leslie: That’s because of our public schools, and they’re being told the kids who are difficult or whatever, medicate them. 

Kim: I know.

Leslie: Sorry, go ahead. 

Kim: I know that’s okay. Walt in Northglenn, what’s on your radar?

Walton: Hi, good morning. Hey, I have a question or possible fact that goes with this, but correct me if I’m wrong, that the United States is the only country that commercializes or advertises pharmaceutical drugs in the United States. 

Kim: Is that true, Leslie? 

Leslie: It’s partially true, Walt. New Zealand- so what you’re actually, I think what you meant to say is that the United States is the only country that allows pharmaceutical companies to advertise directly advertise consumer. 

Walton: Yes, right. 

Leslie: And that is correct, except that also New Zealand. So the United States and New Zealand both allow the pharmaceutical industry to advertise direct to consumers. That law was passed sometime in the late nineties, I believe early two thousand, in there, somewhere in that decade. So yes, now that’s why you get all the ads. They never were there before the late nineties. 

Walton: Cause I can’t remember back in the seventies and eighties. You guys are my age; we’re, you know, close to 60. But I thought, man, that is just mind-blowing, and it’s just how much money they make from the propaganda and the mainstream media. It’s just mind-blowing. It really is, but thank you, ladies. I appreciate the time that you’re given to me. 

Leslie: Let me say something Walt to that, which is so important. It’s not just how they’re manipulating you through their advertisements. What’s even more pernicious is the way that they are essentially buying the media. The pharmaceutical industry will spend 35 billion this year on marketing and advertising of their products globally. They own our media. 

Kim: Wow.

Leslie: In addition to that, the government gave a billion dollars to the media in the last year or two in order to ensure that the media only covered the narrative. The government wanted you to hear about COVID and COVID vaccine.

Kim: Wow, okay, hey Leslie, we got just-

Leslie: Literally, this is the ministry of truth. 

Kim: Okay, true that. We have a minute left, Rhonda. I want you to get your question in. Let’s see if we can address it. Rhonda in Northglenn. 

Rhonda: So my comment is like talking on the indoctrination of our children. I remember back when my older grandson and granddaughter started kindergarten. About the first thing that they came home and said is you can’t touch me because I can call the cops on you. 

Kim: Oh boy. Okay. 

Rhonda: And that was well over 18 years ago.

Kim: Wow. 

Rhonda: So this is how bad, you know, stuff started back then and probably even before then.

Kim: Right. Leslie, 15 seconds. What’s your comments on that?

Leslie: My comments are the only way we’re going to save this is if parents pull their kids out of the school system and build their own schools, get together with others in your community, and homeschool your kids. You don’t have to do it yourself. You can find someone who will, but the point is you can come together, band together, and do it yourself in order to get them out of this because they are indoctrination camps.

Kim: Oh my gosh. Leslie Manookian, thank you so much for joining. Health Freedom Defense Fund, go there, donate, and help her with her work. Leslie, thank you.

Leslie: Thank you, Kim. Great to be with you guys.