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Leslie on Spouting Off with Karen Kataline

By September 6, 2022September 26th, 2022No Comments

Leslie and Karen discuss medical tyranny, how COVID exposed a long-term dark agenda against humanity, and the utter disrespect for human life. They also discuss the path forward, how “we are the many and they are the few” and how individuals can engage and make a difference.

Click here to listen or read the conversation below.

Karen: Welcome back, everyone, to Spouting Off here in Nashua, New Hampshire, but everywhere, wherever you hear your podcasts, we put them up. But our flagship station is WSMN in Nashua, New Hampshire. I am really excited to welcome our next guest. I have been wanting to have her on the show, and therefore, I decided to book her for more than just one segment because I’m so enchanted with what she does, what she has founded, and what she’s doing. She is President and Founder of Health Freedom Defense Fund, a nonprofit which seeks to rectify health injustice through education, advocacy, and legal challenges to unjust mandates, laws, and policies that undermine our health freedoms. We’re going to have an extended discussion with her, and I am so delighted to have her with us. Thank you, Leslie, for joining us here on the show. 

Leslie: Karen, that was the sweetest intro. Thank you so much. It is my honor and pleasure to be here with you today. 

Karen: Thank you. This subject, what we have been watching in the last three years of turning hospitals and all of our healthcare system into arms of a tyrannical government and what they are doing, I have seen it. It breaks my heart. It scares me, and you are doing something about it. I’d like to give you a very broad birth and talk to us about how you founded this organization, and then we’ll talk about what you do. 

Leslie: Sure. Well, I just have to say that New Hampshire’s license plate has always inspired me since I was a young person “live free or die.” I just don’t understand why anybody else can see the world any different way. So maybe I came out that way, Karen, I don’t know.

Karen: Me too.

Leslie: I worked on Wall Street for 11 or 12 years. I worked at Goldman Sachs and then Alliance Capital. And I did very well, but it was not fulfilling for me. It was, in some way, soul-destroying. I felt like I was playing for the wrong team. And what happened was I heard CEOs of multinational companies that would come in for us to talk to them about their businesses so we could decide whether or not we would own their stock. I would listen to them talk about how they knew that their new drug was going to kill some people, but they’d still do 7 billion in peak sales.

Karen: Oh my God! 

Leslie: And I was just sickened by this, I mean, literally sickened. I felt like someone had kicked me in the stomach, and I just- I guess I was very fortunate at a young age to have those experiences to see the truth that these people are not doing what they think is best for humanity. They are really truly only focusing on corporate profits and very often at the expense of humanity. And then also to see that, this may sound crazy, but you know they say money doesn’t buy happiness, and I can just tell you there doesn’t. I learned that at a very young age because I was being paid a lot of money. I came home, and I remember getting a giant bonus, and my husband said, did you find out about your bonus today? And I said, yeah, I did, and I started crying, and he said, why are you crying? Are you disappointed? And I’m like, no, I’m empty. And I think that was just a tremendous gift from God that I got to learn at a very young age that money doesn’t buy happiness. It doesn’t buy fulfillment. It doesn’t buy inspiration or integrity or anything else like that, and I realized that I was doing something that wasn’t actually serving me or serving my family or anybody else and that I had to make changes. And so I started learning about the whole health debate. I didn’t even know there was a health debate around vaccines, but I started learning about it. And the way that I learned about it was because I was sick. I was living in London, running Alliance Capitals European growth portfolio management and research business. And I was just really sick and getting sicker, and I didn’t know what was going on. My mainstream doctor told me to go and see a homeopath. Homeopaths are very common in Britain. 


The doctor told me to go see a homeopath, so I did. And it had such an impact on me I thought, wow, I really want to explore this. And I enrolled in homeopathy school. Actually, I did it in secret, to be honest. I went on the weekends. It didn’t interfere with my job, but I went on the weekends, and the very first weekend, I heard that there was a potential debate around vaccines. And this is a critical portion of my story because he gave me a book to read, which I read, and then I was stunned by. You know, I’m an analyst, kind of geek by nature, and I was one of those kids who at two was asking, you know, but why mom, but why, but why?

Karen: You and me both.

Leslie: And I think it was exasperating to some extent, but you know it stood me very well, and I’ve done everything I can to nurture that in my own son, right?

Karen: Excellent. 

Leslie: Yeah, but anyway, what ended up happening was I read this book, and it rocked my world. And given my experience of knowing that CEOs actually did trade-offs of human life for corporate profit, I decided that I was going to investigate it. And I made a documentary film on vaccines that won several awards called, The Greater Good. And it was just a look at the whole debate through the lens of a variety of different experts from all different perspectives and families who’d had a personal impact from them. And it really launched me into the whole health freedom movement. But most importantly, it helped me to understand why it is so important that we have bodily autonomy, that we have the right to choose how we keep ourselves well and what medical interventions we will allow or select for our families. And this was already heating up over 15 years ago, so I started doing a deep dive on all the ways that Congress has passed and the federal government has just usurped power, but basically, power taking away our rights and freedoms. And so when 2020 unfolded, I knew exactly where this was headed because they’ve been putting the different steps in place to essentially allow the COVID response to happen the way that it did for decades, if not even a century. 

Karen: And you saw it happening.

Leslie: At the beginning of 2020, I said, I gotta do something. And I started Health Freedom Defense Fund. 

Karen: I’m so glad you did. And I’m so glad we have the time to talk about it. This is so much of what is going on right now. I just want to throw in this one question. I am a conservative, not a Republican, I’m a conservative, and there was a large group of people who would’ve loved your movie, The Greater Good, and everything that you did. Many of them liberals, many of them professed liberals, would’ve loved it about corporations and trading off people’s lives and deaths and insurance companies and big pharma. They would’ve been a hundred percent behind you, and then COVID came. Their betters told them they should be forced to put a rag on their face, which did nothing but subject them and erase their individuality. And they should be forced to take a vaccine, and like clockwork, they fell in line and goose-stepped to what they were said. Would you like to comment on that? Because it was such a dramatic shift in everything, we’ve seen from your basic Democrat or anybody who loved freedom. And then, all of a sudden, boom, they did what they were told.

Leslie: I’d like to say two things to that, Karen, which I think is one of the most important shifts in American politics. First of all, let me say I was a devout leftist until I made The Greater Good, and so were my fellow filmmakers. We were all very, very liberal. We thought that we were the good guys. The cool guys, the ones on the right side, we thought we were defending all these ideals that we held to be dear. I would say that the flip actually began before COVID, and that’s what most people don’t realize. COVID has laid bare a trend that was already in place for over 15 years. And that was the shift from, at least in perception, from the left defending rights to the right defending rights. And I’m with you; I’m not a Republican. I don’t know even know if I consider myself a conservative. I don’t really identify with any party because I don’t feel that either of them or any of them reflect who I am, and I don’t think anybody can be put into one of those boxes. I’m just a human being who believes in the right to choose what I put in my body. And what I wanted to share with you is that COVID exposed it very, very clearly, but I think this trend began far before what you realize. And the reason I say that is I live in a very beautiful and well-off community in Sun Valley, Idaho, the nation’s first ski resort, and when my filmmaking partners and I started going around trying to raise money in this valley, which is very left-leaning we were met with walls of silence and this is in 2008, 2009.

Karen: Wow. 

Leslie: These people didn’t want to know already. And let me tell you as well, the media, for the most part, lean’s hard left, right? You know, all of the legacy and major media, and we got smeared. We were smeared by the New York Times. The chief programmer at Sundance wanted our film in. She said her hands were tied from above. They censored our film. We got smeared all across the nation, the New York times out and out lied about us, and yet what would happen is I’d go, and I’d speak with conservatives about the issues that we were going to raise in the film that the government’s not being honest. And they would say, well, of course, the government’s lying.

Karen: Right.

Leslie: And then we would say, you know, these federal health agencies aren’t protecting our children. Well, of course, they’re not. And I was just like, whoa, whoa, smack my head, right?

Karen: They’re not what the propaganda said they are. And, of course, we see this insane move towards demonizing them all, which is bigotry but, ah! Oh, there’s so much to talk about. 

Leslie: And Karen, can I just- 

Karen: Go ahead and finish that thought. 

Leslie: Yeah. Two or three years ago, was it the beginning of 2019, the world health organization labeled anti-vaxxers as one of the top 10 threats to global health. 

Karen: Well, of course, they did. It’s all their fault.

Leslie: Adam Schiff, Congressman from California, wrote to Amazon and Facebook and YouTube and everybody and told them to take down any content that conflicted with mainstream narratives. My point is it began before COVID. Well before COVID, it’s just that nobody was paying attention to it, except for those of us who are deeply entrenched. Or deeply fighting in the trenches is a much better way to portray it with respect to health freedom. So I think COVID laid it there, but it had been going on for a long time already, in my view. 

Karen: Yes. But, COVID, and what they did with COVID really, I’m not disagreeing with you, was a jump-the-shark moment in which they pulled the trigger and they said, we’re going for it, we’re going with full-out authoritarianism. We all know cuz we’ve lived it, so I don’t have to go through that, but I would like you to comment on the umbrella effect of what you are fighting. It has come out in drips and drabs that Andrew Cuomo, among others, is not the only one. He didn’t just do a stupid thing by sending COVID into nursing homes. He did a brazen thing that killed thousands of people, and I can’t help but say that the policies we’re watching seemed to be designed to have us cheapen life itself. To disrespect life certainly disrespect individual Liberty. I see it as a march to Marxism, but the fact that somebody could get away with that and then leave office because they had a sexual impropriety and never, ever, ever, be held accountable. Doesn’t that tell us where we are? And I’d like you to comment on that. 

Leslie: Yeah, very much, Karen. This lawlessness, though, was going on beforehand. In New York, they took away religious exemptions for children to vaccinations by suspending the rules of the New York assembly. They did the same thing in California. In 2019, this is what they did. But in California, they’ve been attacking parental rights for more than a decade. It has been a slow chip away at all of parents’ rights, to the point now where parents can’t exempt their children anymore unless they homeschool them. And my point is that what is going on is a full-fledged assault on not only parental rights but Americans’ freedom to choose how they live their lives, and it’s not an innocent mistake. I just posted to my substack literally a few minutes ago, CDC, Just an Innocent Mistake (; that’s the title of my latest piece. This stuff has been going on for decades. And I mean, Karen, this may sound sensational, but people need to understand this is mass murder. That’s what it is. 

Karen: That’s correct. 

Leslie: What has happened in this country is that we have excess death almost exclusively in 11 states and in states that are literally next door as though a state line as though a virus can understand a state line? There are no excess deaths in one state, but in the neighboring state, New York, there are extreme excess deaths, or in Michigan or New Jersey and in the states around them that you don’t see that. Why is that? Because these policies pushed, literally forced on the public by these literally crazed governors led to the death of thousands, why?

Karen: That’s correct. 

Leslie: And they put these shots too, which are not safe or effective, and they lied about it. I can tell you need to go to break, so I will stop there. 

Karen: We’re going to talk about that, and we’re going to leave plenty of room cause you could see why I needed you at least these two segments, and I’m so glad you’re staying. We’re going to talk about what your organization is doing to fight back against this. It is so critically important. Delighted to have Leslie Manookian with us. We will be right back. Don’t go anywhere.


Welcome back, everyone, to Spouting Off. We are delighted to be talking to Leslie Manookian, the Founder of Thank you, Leslie, for staying with us and doing another segment. We so appreciate your time. 

Leslie: Karen, it’s so great to be with you. And if you don’t mind, I just wanna finish up the last comment I was making because it’s so important.

Karen: Please.

Leslie: It is not an accident that the governors banned hydroxychloroquine in March of 2020 before it was even controversial or Trump had said anything about it, or anybody was questioning it. They took it away. Why? It is not an accident that they did the same thing with ivermectin. Basically, they’ve been doing all they can to pillory it. It’s not an accident that CDC has suppressed its own science showing that masks have no impact, that distancing, literally they say Paul Alexander, who served in the Trump administration says that Robert Redfield, the former CDC director says they just made up the distancing distance of six feet. These things are not accidents. You can’t view them in a vacuum. And then, when you look at the shot, this shot is responsible for tens of thousands of deaths just reported to the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System and well over a million adverse events in a normal world in a just world in a logical world.

Karen: Insane!

Leslie: It would’ve been pulled off the market in a sane world. It would’ve been pulled up the market right away, and that’s not happening. 


That’s why I have to say. It’s mass murder! They know it is damn well what they’re doing, and people have to wake up and understand that this is not a joke. They are sterilizing young people. This is a problem. I mean, women, I actually went to the naturopath last week. She told me that she is sending in samples of semen for analysis, and the lab results are showing that 75% of the sperm are dead in the sample. Dead. 

Karen: Have they known whether the samples come from vaccinated people?

Leslie: Yes. They’re all from vaccinated individuals. 

Karen: I’m gonna add this because I pulled this. I want you to just to add this headline, I couldn’t believe my eyes, but yes, I could. Embalmers have been finding numerous long fibrous clots that lack post-mortem characteristics with no elements of life in them, like zinc and copper and just the normal metals. They’re finding this drastic increase in blood clots in vaccinated people who die. 

Leslie: And Karen, they’re not blood clots, right? They are something foreign. They do not have the same composition that you find in normal blood. They have elevated levels. The most elevated is tin. What the heck is tin doing in the human body, let alone in these clots? Whatever I mean, I’m calling them clots and air quotes. Tin and other very suspicious things are in these clots and are they obstructing our capillaries and our blood vessels and is that what’s killing people? We don’t know. And then, of course, there’s also the other recently revealed information that in Pfizer’s own data they only reported on a subset of women, but on those that they reported who were pregnant during the trial, 86, I believe percent of them miscarry their babies.

Karen: Stunning. 

Leslie: And yet we’re told that they’re safe for pregnant women.

Karen: Yeah and they’re suppressing this information. So let’s move forward here and take advantage of this time because it is so dark and so frightening. If we allow ourselves, which our listeners have to recognize that this is being done to the population with malicious forethought, then- if it’s being done maliciously, then where do we go from there? When people go to a hospital, they are prescribed things that will kill them. We have found that remdesivir and ventilators turned up too high. If you accept that they no longer respect life, then it isn’t as hard to believe that this kind of horror is actually happening in the United States of America. So in your group,, I want you to talk about what you’re doing to fight back against this because that’s what is so beautiful. You didn’t just say this is horrible; you’re doing something about it. 

Leslie: Well, let me start by saying that we are the group that stopped the nationwide travel mask mandate. So we won our lawsuit in April of this year, pushing back against the federal government’s mask mandate for everybody who was traveling. And we won that case. It’s now under appeal, but we feel optimistic about our chances of surviving the appeal because we believe the government overstepped its bounds, the CDC by issuing that diktat essentially. But the point is that you’re raising is that it’s easy to be dark and sit here and do nothing or sit here and feel paralyzed in fear because it’s hard to even conceive for those of us who are decent human beings, which is the vast majority of us, that others could be downright evil and so brazen in their attacks on human life essentially. But that’s what’s happening, and I just decided that I have a 19-year-old son. I wasn’t gonna sit idly by and do nothing. I know because of all the research I’ve done for the last 20 years that this whole situation has been put in place that essentially, the foundation was paved in order to facilitate such a drastic response to a so-called health emergency, and I decided that the best thing to do would be to fight back through the courts, through education, and through advocacy. So we try and educate people about their rights because most Americans don’t even know what their rights are; they don’t know that the Declaration of Independence says that your rights come from your creator. And as such, they cannot be taken. They cannot be usurped, removed, or infringed upon by the government. No matter what they’re saying. Now, that doesn’t mean that the courts always uphold that because our courts have strayed far from our original founders, but we can push back. So we educate, we advocate by giving people materials to go to their state legislatures and their representatives and speak with them about how they want their rights protected and the laws that they want passed in order to ensure that their rights are protected. And then we litigate when necessary. And, of course, there’s been ample opportunity to litigate in the last two and a half years. So we’ve done a ton of that. We have filed over a dozen lawsuits, and we’ve got a bunch of lawsuits pending. The biggest success, of course, is the mask mandate lawsuit. And we can’t do this work without your support, so please do go and donate to us at But basically, we are trying to do everything we can to push back against these unlawful unethical, egregious violations of our personal rights and freedoms. The Supreme Court has ruled repeatedly that you have the right to refuse medical treatment and that even if-

Karen: It’s the basic patient’s bill of rights, as basic as, it’s the Nuremberg code, it’s as basic as it gets.

Leslie: Correct, Karen. Correct, and the thing is, but it’s incumbent upon each and every American to stand up and say no. We now know that these shots don’t prevent transmission or infection, but even if they did every human being has to make the decision about what’s right for them. That’s what we stand up for. If you wanna choose to take the shot, that’s your right. But Health Freedom Defense Fund also will defend your right not to choose it, and that’s why we exist. That’s it. Keep plain it simple. 

Karen: Beautiful, and as part of that, you absolutely have a right to do that. You also have a right to have informed consent and not to be lied to about what’s in the shot, especially an experimental shot. So you’re talking not only about coercion, but also the use of force. What else do you want us to know, Leslie? One of the things I find is that people who have what I call the curse of awareness about all this that we’re talking about. I don’t think my audience is oblivious to what we’re talking about. But it is so dark that it’s easy to get frozen in place, catatonic. What can one person do when the arsonists are in charge of the fire brigade? They have the power, so it’s easy to feel powerless, and you’re a model of how it is that you don’t feel powerless but talk to our listeners who get it. I do want them to go to your website and make a donation, but what else can they do so as not to feel powerless? 

Leslie: Well, I think there are so many things that they can do. First of all, they can run for their local school boards. They can run for city council and other positions like this. Local decisions are made locally, and you can impact them by running for office and standing up for rights. So that’s one thing. The other thing you can do is contact the editor of your local newspaper and write articles defending your freedoms, expressing what you think is important. The biggest thing is I think that most Americans don’t know their rights anymore because our educational system has failed them. And secondly, because Americans have actually taken their eye off the ball in recent decades. 

Karen: Yes.

Leslie: And I think it’s critically important that Americans reengage. So show up. When was the last time you attended a city council meeting? Do you even know what they’re doing? Do you know what your state legislature is doing? Do you know who your state Representative or Senator is? You’ve got to find out, you’ve got to see where they stand, and you’ve gotta make your voices heard. We are the many, they are the few, and we can push back. So you’ve gotta get involved. My mantra for the last year has been globalism is the problem localism is the answer. And I truly believe that you have got to get involved on a local level. And then you also have to throw your support to groups like us who are actually doing what they can to fight back. We have sued the Los Angeles Unified School District, the second largest school district in America because they are trying to force and they are firing teachers who won’t get the shots, even though the shots are now known to injure and kill people and cause catastrophic health conditions. Even though we know that the shots don’t confer any kind of immunity, they don’t even reduce hospitalization or death like they were alleged. So we can’t fight these fights unless we get support. We’re suing the Federal government on behalf of federal employees who are being forced to get the shots and thousands of airline and transportation workers who are being forced to get the shots. We just filed a lawsuit about ten days ago on behalf of a young woman who’s a receptionist at 20th television animation; it’s a Disney company. She’s a receptionist who had a happy life and happy job until it was revealed that she didn’t want to get the shot because she has an immune condition, and also it violates her religious faith, she’s a Christian, and she doesn’t consume anything that comes from aborted babies, and these shots are born on aborted baby tissues, and so we’re suing Disney for her. We’re helping her; we’re underwriting and sponsoring this. And this is a lawsuit for every American because if they can do this to a young receptionist, just because she’s a Christian conservative who declined the shot, they can do it to anybody. So I just encourage every one of your listeners to go to our website, donate what you can, get engaged, follow what’s going on, and support the work of our group and other groups who are doing what they can to support your freedoms. You know, we’re on the front lines doing this, and we can’t do it without the support of the millions of Americans who are on our side and make no mistake. You are not alone. There are millions of Americans on your side.

Karen: Thank God. You are a model for people. Many people have started these organizations to fight back, and I truly do believe we would be even further along toward tyranny and authoritarianism in this country if there wasn’t the pushback that you are doing. Think of it, that there are places where they went even further like Australia and Austria and these people in Washington, DC, and elsewhere, this group of people, they will go as far as they’re allowed to, as far as they can and push back and defiance against tyranny is critical. 

We’ve got about four minutes. I love your passion. If there’s somebody out there who wants to start a group, maybe not about healthcare or something else, what kind of advice might you give them to do that? 

Leslie: You know Karen, I think that the universe, God, and others support you when you are following your passion. And when you just put one foot in front of the other to try to make a difference, I think it creates a giant tailwind or vortex for you, you know? I didn’t know what was gonna happen when I started this. I didn’t know that in less than two years of starting Health Freedom Defense Fund, we’d sue the federal government and win. Whoever knows that? You know, it’s so easy to look around you and think, oh, they are so much further ahead or, oh, they’re so much bigger than I am, or they’re this, or they’re that. You just have to follow your heart, and you have to trust that if you’re following your heart, all is as it’s meant to be and that you will get the support that you need, and I think that that’s what you need to do. That’s why I say get involved. The world is changed by those who show up. That’s it. It’s not changed by the masses getting involved. It’s changed by the few who decide they are going to engage because they are passionate. They believe in principle. They believe in truth. They believe in accountability, and they believe in duty. Let’s be honest duty is a major part of what it takes to make any country work because we can’t be free without the duty to defend our freedom. You can’t have a free country without the duty to show up and be accounted. So it’s really important that people remember that it’s incumbent upon them to engage. And so I just think if you do that, all you have to do is start. Don’t be afraid to start. Just take one step, and then others will support you because there are so many people who just don’t know what to do or don’t have the focus or energy or whatever it might be. So take that first step, just do that and see where it takes you. That’s my advice. 

Karen: Oh, you are so inspiring! And I don’t want to gush, but I am absolutely, with enormous respect for you for having seen the enormity of this problem and used your talents, your gifts, and your passion to make a difference. We have about a minute, so 

Leslie: I want to say something. There’s something happening right now. And that is that the world health organization wants more power. They want more power. They want a pandemic treaty globally that will be binding on every member nation, telling you what to do in the event of another crisis. They want more power despite the fact that they have failed. They have lied. They have concealed information- 

Karen: It’s a vehicle to Marxism 

Leslie: Please go to (

Karen: Leslie Manookian, I’m so glad to have you on. Thank you for the generosity of your time. Thank you for the work that you do. Hats off to you. We gotta go. We’ll have another show on Thursday. Thank you.