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Leslie on Dr. Heather Uncensored

By August 4, 2022August 22nd, 2022No Comments

Leslie and Heather have a broad conversation discussing HFDF lawsuits, lawsuits against private entities, discrimination, health freedom, homeopathy, and the hope that the recent lawsuit wins have incited.

Click here to listen, or read the conversation below.

Heather: Welcome everyone to Dr. Heather uncensored. I’m so excited to have Leslie Manookian here today. She is the President and Founder of Health Freedom Defense Fund, a nonprofit which seeks to rectify health injustice through education, advocacy, and legal challenges to unjust mandates, laws, and policies that undermine our health freedoms and human rights. She is a former successful Wall Street business executive, an award-winning documentary film producer, and writer. She writes and speaks on topics of health, freedom, nutrition, personal development, politics, and more. She chose to leave Wall Street at the height of her career in order to pursue this more meaningful path. She conceived, wrote, and produced The Greater Good, an award-winning film about childhood vaccination. So welcome, Leslie. I don’t even know where to start. There’s so many things to talk about. Let’s talk about what you were just telling me. 

Leslie: Sure, well, two things; there have been two big developments, but the biggest one in the last few days is that there was a huge win against a hospital system in Illinois. So, a bunch of healthcare workers in a hospital system in the Chicago area filed suit that they were being discriminated against on the basis of religion. And this is the very, very first lawsuit that was won against a private entity. So it’s a really big deal because what it is, is a major check, right? A smackdown of these private businesses who think they can do whatever they want because they’re private, right? You can’t discriminate. You cannot discriminate against people on the basis of religion just because you’re a private business. 

Heather: Yeah, I’m so excited. I just heard about this. So I’m just like off the walls. I’m just so excited. 

Leslie: It’s fantastic. We at Health Freedom Defense Fund are thrilled about it because we have several lawsuits in the works that will be filed in the next couple of weeks against major private actors. And so this is actually a very, very positive development for us just as we are gonna go after some very, very big players. 

Heather: Awesome. It’s just such great news. You know, we talked about this two and a half years ago- two years, when things were starting to happen, that this is what would happen, and we’re just watching it. So now all the good stuff is happening. 

Leslie: Yeah. It’s really- it’s fantastic because there have been lawsuits against private entities, and they’ve failed, okay? The wins that we’ve had so far, like our mask mandate, you know, we fought, we sued the Biden administration over the federal travel mask mandate, and we won. Now it’s different- 

Heather: Thank you!

Leslie: You’re welcome. I’m so happy. I tell you, that was the best part of the whole thing. When we won that lawsuit in April, seeing all of the smiling faces, the videos of people taking off their masks and singing and celebrating on airplanes was just so incredibly gratifying. Of course, you know, we were thrilled to have won, but we were most gratified by this just outpouring of happiness. And I would say also what really followed through was the hope. I think people felt pretty hopeless that they were powerless against this behemoth.

Heather: Yeah.

Leslie: Against the government, right? And that was a huge blow and so very, very positive. And so that’s the other thing that we’ve done, Heather, which I was just mentioning too, was that just yesterday, this is the first interview I’ve given about it. We filed our answer brief in reply to DOJ Department of Justice’s appeal of our win in April. They want to reinstate the mask mandate. Okay, that’s what’s happening.

Heather: What’s the matter with people?

Leslie: Yeah, they want to mostly, I believe, it’s more about clawing back the power that they think that they have, that they want to have. That’s what it’s really about. Because I think they realize how politically unpalatable it will be to reimplement a mask mandate. 

Heather: Yeah. People have had it. It’s enough already, you know? 

Leslie: Exactly.

Heather: Even the people who are okay with it. It’s enough already.

Leslie: Yeah, exactly. And you know what, if you want to wear a mask, go wear a mask. We’re not arguing that you can’t wear a mask. We’re not telling anybody else what to do.

We’re just saying that the government has to uphold the law. The federal government is not empowered to make health decisions for millions of Americans who aren’t even suspected of being ill. 

Heather: Exactly. That’s the whole crux, isn’t it? And people say to me, put your mask on. I’m not sick. If I was sick, I wouldn’t even be here. You know, the library, they’re still doing that in Los Angeles. 

Leslie: Yeah. Well, what they did was they, of course, took one case. They said that was a case of asymptomatic spread, but it wasn’t a case of asymptomatic spread. That was a complete- It was dishonest, okay. It was a lie, there was a Chinese national who was in Germany, and this person was actually sick but was taking Advil and whatever flu, kind of over-the-counter stuff to suppress her symptoms, but she was actually not well, and then she flew back to China. And the health authorities in Germany found out that she wasn’t healthy, but they never told the public. And so this was used to communicate to the global populace that asymptomatic spread exists when the truth is it doesn’t. There was even a big study done in Wuhan in China that looked at 10 million people, and guess how many cases of asymptomatic spread they identified? 

Heather: How many?

Leslie: Zero.

Heather: Really, zero? 

Leslie: They looked at a population of 10 million people, and they found zero. It really is. You know, if you’re sick, you’re sick. You stay home, you don’t feel like going anywhere and doing anything, you know if you’re really sick. Anyway, so yes, this Northshore hospital system was huge because it was the first one against a private actor, and in the United States, because of private property rights, generally speaking, we say that you can do what you want with your own private property and a business is private property. And so there are people who are arguing that they can do anything they want and this- you know, you can do anything you want in your private business, but you can’t violate people’s rights just because it’s your private business. So this is great. What I hope this will ultimately lead to over the coming months and years is us winning that you not only can’t discriminate on the basis of religion, but you also can’t force a person to inject themselves in order to have a job, right? Because if you are entitled to freedom of expression about religion, aren’t you also entitled to bodily autonomy, isn’t that even more basic?

Heather: Exactly, yeah, and that’s the whole problem, and it’s been going on for a long time, you know, from my position, but these wins are so fantastic.

Leslie: So yeah, and there’s been a bunch, there’s been a slew of wins in recent weeks. There was a- it’s a temporary win, but a judge blocked the Air Force from firing any further people on the basis of their religious exemptions to getting the shots. 

Heather: Ah, that’s great. 

Leslie: And it’s for the entire Air Force, anybody in all sorts of divisions of the Air Force, anybody who’s there. So it’s temporary while a case proceeds, but that’s a big win. There have been so many positive cases. There was the Governor of New York, Kathy Hochul, she actually issued an executive order that would allow New Yorkers to be detained for merely being suspected of being exposed to an infectious agent, detained, and quarantined. Yes. 

Heather: Wow.

Leslie: And a crackerjack attorney sued, and that was struck down. Now New York is appealing. It’s amazing. Why are New Yorkers not out in the streets? I mean, who wants that kind of insanity? 

Heather: Yeah.

Leslie: Right? Who wants government-

Heather: Yeah. I don’t understand it. 

Leslie: Well, I think that the truth is, Heather, that most people just don’t know, right? The media doesn’t report on this. The only way you can find out this information is if you actually go and look for it. Most people are just completely ignorant to it. They have, they have no clue, and that’s, you know, how summary the stranglehold is on the flow of information in this country that the media isn’t reporting. They are propagandizing, they are manipulating, and controlling, and they’re doing it at the behest of the federal government. And I’m not kidding when I say that, right? It’s really, truly happening. 

Heather: Right.

Leslie: That the federal government has paid the media a billion dollars in the last year, year and a half in order to report the way that they want things reported. And also that they have- It’s just been released in Freedom of Information Act requests that they’ve been colluding with big tech as well to censor us.

Heather: And then there was also, what was it? There was a new, I don’t have it on me here, but there was something that gave Biden powers that he could actually do almost anything he wanted. I don’t have it- I don’t know what I did with- the bill number, but there are so many things going on there that we’re not even- that’s not being spoken about. 

Leslie: Well, there’s something about him trying to claim emergency authority. I think that would be permanent. He actually did extend the emergency. Do you think there’s an emergency? Where is there an emergency? 

Heather: Yeah, exactly. 

So did SAG Screen Actors Guild extended the masks and the vaccine requirements till the end of September. 

Leslie: Yep. 

Heather: So many of us who would like to audition can’t. So there’s just so many different ways that this is affecting us all.

Leslie: Yeah, exactly. I mean, there are so many egregious violations of our rights and usurpations of power and authority that has never, ever existed. So the CDC, in order to claim that it had the power and authority to mask us all, even if we weren’t suspected of being sick they claim it from the Public Health Services Act of 1944. Well, never ever before has that Act been used to justify interfering in the life of every individual American. 

Heather: And what is that called again?

Leslie: It’s called the Public Health Services Act of 1944. So basically, what happened was the first line of the Public Health Services Act says that the CDC is empowered to do all different kinds of things in order to defend public health, and then it goes on, and it delineates what exactly that means, and it’s like fumigation, blocking the transportation of infected animals, sanitation and all these things, right. So CDC took the first line that says it’s empowered, and that’s what they relied on. But the fact of the matter is the statute says you’re allowed to do certain things to property, to infected animals, to waste, to sewage, to things like this. And they took that, and they pulled it out after we sued them. They never claimed that authority before we sued them. 

Heather: Ah, interesting. 

Leslie: It was only after they sued after we sued them. They claim this authority, and it doesn’t exist in the statute, and so the judge rightly found in our view that they lack the statutory authority that they were claiming, and this is what’s just happening is there’s just this insanity because the government’s really gone kind of crazy it seems. 

Heather: Yeah, well, a lot of people are feeling very powerless, and so they use whatever level of control that they have to- you know, like Newsom or Penn or all these people who think that they know anything about health and they know they know nothing about the human body, you know?

Leslie: Oh, isn’t that true, Heather? You know I’m a homeopath and- 

Heather: Yeah, I wanna talk to you about that. That’s exciting Wall Street to a homeopath. 

Leslie: Exactly. So I was really sick, Heather. That’s what basically happened; I was really sick. I didn’t know what had happened to me at the time. 

Heather: Did you know what you were sick with?

Leslie: Well, I was vaccine injured.

Heather: Oh, you were?! 

Leslie: This was when I was working on wall street 30 years ago.

Heather: Oh, 30 years ago, and that’s why eventually you created The Greater Good about childhood vaccines, and that was back in 2011. 

Leslie: Well, here’s what happened, Heather, is I was sick, and I’d moved to England. I’m living in London, working in finance, and I’m just getting sick all the time. And I’d been getting sick for two years before that, and I’d gotten all these shots before I went to Southeast Asia on a trip before I started my big job on Wall Street. And I kept going to the doctor when I moved to England and just saying, I’m struggling, and I don’t know what’s wrong. I kept having sinus infections, and I must have had 10 or 15 sinus infections in three years. And I kept going to the doctor, and he finally said, listen, I know you’re sick, and you know, you’re sick, but Western medicine can’t help you. Conventional medicine can’t help you. I’d suggest you go and see a homeopath or an acupuncturist. And homeopathy is very popular and prominent in Britain. In fact, the Royal family has personal homeopaths, and so I thought, hmm, well, okay, I’ll go and try it. And I’d actually done this little experiment.

 I told this story- I don’t know if I have before, but I’d gotten in a skiing accident, and I had a huge bruise on my thigh, and it wouldn’t go away for a month, and I couldn’t believe it. And so everywhere you go in Britain in all of the pharmacies, you know, the drug stores, corner drug stores, there’s homeopathic displays. You could buy homeopathic remedies everywhere you go. And I kept seeing arnica cream, and I was like, maybe I’ll just try this and see what happens. So literally, it had not gone away for a month. And one night before I went to bed, I bought the cream, and I just smeared the cream on one-quarter of the bruise and went to bed at like 10 o’clock, and I woke up at six o’clock in the morning, and guess what? The skin was totally white, normal, where I had put the cream, and the rest of it was perfectly bruised. 

Heather: Oh, it’s interesting that it didn’t seep into that.

Leslie: I know it just did it exactly where I put it, and I was like, oh, I did it again on another quarter that night, and I was like, oh my gosh! And then I did it again, and after four days, I was just like, okay, there is something to this. So anyway, I went and saw a homeopath, and it was the first time that I felt someone fully understood me. And it was the beginning of me starting a very long healing journey, which, you know- I think it kept me from getting a heck of a lot worse and started treating things. But homeopathy is the most magical medicine there is on the planet. And there’s a reason there is a reason why FDA and the pharmaceutical industry hate it, and they’ve been trying to put us out of business for over a hundred years. And that’s because it’s the biggest threat, I think, don’t you?

Heather: Absolutely, in the late 18 hundreds, a lot of medical doctors were homeopathic medical doctors. I mean, there were a lot of different types of doctors in the late 18 hundreds, and then, of course, Well- I don’t wanna get into your time here with that, but I mean, what basically happened is the homeopathic medical doctors basically couldn’t practice homeopathy. So even now, even though there are places where people obviously practice homeopathy, like for me as a naturopathic doctor, I can be licensed in California, but if you just strictly practice homeopathy, you cannot be licensed in the same way. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

Leslie: Well, I actually think that’s good because if you look at-, I personally believe that licensure and standardization are the way that they control the people.

Heather: Absolutely. 

Leslie: And so, I actually think it’s good that you’re not licensed because, you know what? Once you get licensed and you give your power away, they can use that power against you, and the Federation of State Licensing Boards for Medical Doctors has been weaponized against them in the last decade, in earnest in the last year or two years and doctors who speak out, they’re literally, they receive notices that say if you say anything that deviates from CDCs narrative on COVID or COVID shots, that we can haul you in front of the state licensing board and remove your license. So, this is not about freedom of speech. It’s not about science or truth. It’s about servility essentially, right? It’s about service to a narrative that’s state and pharmaceutical corporation controlled, and I think that’s what’s really happening. So with respect to homeopathy, Heather, I have to say this cuz it’s so amazing. There were, I think, 20 homeopathic hospitals in the United States at the turn of the 20th century, and there were, I forget- 

Heather: At least! Oh no, I think there were a lot more than that.

Leslie: It might have been homeopathic schools then. There were 20 schools in the United States. 

Heather: There might have been even more than that because I just put it in my Transforming Trauma book that’s coming out about the mental asylums, and there were many of those that were homeopathic, and people have no clue. 

Leslie: Yeah, and what happened was Rockefeller and Carnegie commissioned the Flexner report, which was literally nothing more than a giant smear piece. 

Heather: Yes. 

Leslie: It smeared all of the ancient healing arts and ancient healing modalities and said that we need to standardize and license all of these different medical approaches in order to make it consistent and all these things because it’s safer and it’s better. And then what happened was once they did that, Rockefeller funded the medical hospitals-

Heather: That’s right. 

Leslie: And they took off, and everybody else was left by the wayside, and then they smeared them as well. So it has nothing to do with the truth. 

Heather: It has nothing to do with taking care of the body. In fact, there’s a fellow you should meet if you don’t know, Dr. Rick Kirschner in Idaho. He’s a naturopathic doctor, who’s done a documentary on naturopathic medicine, and I interviewed him- it must have been like episode 10 way back in season one. He knows all about the Flexner report, so we talked about that. I believe it’s episode one, but it’s Rick Kirschner, and you should really talk to him.

Leslie: Where is he, Heather?

Heather: Idaho, I can introduce you.

Leslie: The reason I’m asking is I have a friend who’s being treated for a certain kind of cancer, and I think he’s going to him.

Heather: Well, I think Rick actually, at this point, is retired, but the reason I was thinking, because he has this fantastic documentary that, as far as I know, has not gotten anywhere yet because people are just not interested in naturopathic medicine and homeopathy, they don’t understand how that’s really the way to health, you know? Anyways, it’s so great to talk to you because here you had that experience in England, and you changed your whole career to open up to that reality, so bravo. 

It was life-changing. Yeah, my son is 19, now almost 20, and he was raised exclusively on homeopathy.

Oh yeah. That’s fantastic.

Leslie: Yeah. It is magic. I mean, I have just seen things that divide defy. Um, let’s just say defy matter. 

Heather: Exactly. Well, my mother also came to believe it because she tripped in Edinburgh, at the castle there, and she thought she wasn’t gonna be able to walk for the rest of the trip. And so I gave her some Anica, and the next morning she said, well, what happened to it? I’m fine. It was so funny. So it’s, yeah, magical, and it’s very beautiful for dealing with people who have deep trauma. So I think that right now, people do have deep trauma, and the whole COVID thing is exasperating it, or it brought it on. So yeah. 

Leslie: A hundred percent. 

Heather: I was thrilled when I heard you were a homeopath. 

Leslie: Yeah. Whenever I give presentations and talks, I always try and talk about it because not only is it magical, Heather, but I also think that it’s health freedom in a little bottle, right? Because you don’t fear infections, you don’t fear sprained ankles and concussions. You don’t fear emotional trauma and shocks and frights or the flu or sore throats. My husband used to get strep throat all the time, and he doesn’t get strep throat anymore. My son was an athlete, and he worked through- he would heal from broken bones in two weeks.

Heather: Wow. Really two weeks? 

Leslie: Yeah. You know, unbelievable things, and so to me, that’s the most important part because we are under attack in many different ways, and one of the ways that we can actually liberate ourselves from those powers is through health independence. And you get that by growing your own food or being part of a local food network or food co-op. That’s one piece of it, of course, and then there are other pieces of it, homeschooling and things like this. But I think another huge pillar of it is health freedom, and you get that by having herbs and knowing your herbs, but most importantly, by having your own home homeopathy kit with a pharmacy of remedies, and I have hundreds of them, so-

Heather: Yeah, absolutely. Well, that’s been my whole thing for- I guess, over 35 years, and it’s just great. When I heard you speaking on what we called- what do we call it? Nuremberg 2.0? 

Leslie: It’s not- it’s the COVID- the Corona Investigative Committee Reiner’s- 

Heather: Yes, right, and when I heard you speak about that and just like building community, and I think that as we talk about all the terrible stuff that’s happened and all the lawsuits, we also go forward into building our own communities and building our own life that is based on all these natural means. Natural, energetic. 

Leslie: A hundred percent. 

Heather: I loved hearing you talk about that. That was my first introduction to you. 

Leslie: Oh, that’s great to hear. Yeah, I think it’s imperative because there’s that saying that you don’t fight an old paradigm. You create a new one and render the old one obsolete, right? It’s Buckminster Fuller, I think, who said that, and I think it’s so important to understand that yes, the powers that be are behemoth, right? They’re Legion. 

Heather: Yeah. 

Leslie: They are, and if you only focus on that, it’s intimidating, and it’s disillusioning, and it’s a little bit hard to maybe find the motivation, but if you focus on just actually creating a different reality in life for you it’s not as overwhelming. It’s not as daunting. 

Heather: And plus, you’ll attract all those people to you, and you create a community, and then you realize there’s all these different pods around that are creating these communities. 

Leslie: A hundred percent Heather. Yeah.

Heather: It’s a beautiful thing. 

Leslie: It is.

Heather: That’s the magic too. Yes, all these new friends, I just love them all. Well, I just wanted to ask you in 2011, when you did The Greater Good of childhood vaccines, now I understand that all came out of your experience in England, but I see- you know, I was reading it, what people will say to you about that. Like, you know how it’s like anti-vaccine propaganda, and you look at it and you- Wow, this woman’s really strong. She has to put up- not only does she realize what’s going on, but she’s willing to stand up and get that kind of abuse. Whereas at some point, they’ll say, oh well, you really knew. So it’s always important to say you really knew! So all that crap that they say is just coming from such ignorance. 

Leslie: Well, it’s worse than that, actually. It’s not even coming from ignorance. I’d say a fraction of it is coming from ignorance, but the main source of it is very orchestrated controlled trolls attacking us in order to smear us and undermine our credibility, right? You know, I went to a prestigious university to get my MBA. I worked at Goldman Sachs. I was a successful person on Wall Street. Those are not; they would say, typical of the person who questions the narrative, right? And so they have to smear somebody like me, as a whatever, a quack or a conspiracy theorist or an anti-vaxxer or whatever.

Heather: Or a murderer.

Leslie: That too. Yes, I’ve been called a child murderer. And I mean, I’ve had people post on my substack that I’m responsible for the deaths of millions of people or thousands of people, some ridiculous- and that they’re gonna come after me, sue me in a class action lawsuit. Because I won a lawsuit, you’re gonna file a class action against me? It’s insane, right?

Heather: It’s insane. 

Leslie: It’s insane. 

Heather: It’s totally insane. And it’s just part of history right now, but I just, again, appreciate you just standing up and being able to take that and just throw it back.

Leslie: Well, you know what, essentially, I just don’t listen to it. Oftentimes I’m like, whatever, it used to kind of bother me early in the early days because, to be honest, Heather, when we first made the movie, I was so naive. I thought if we just make this movie and investigate this and find out what’s going on and share all these different perspectives and let the public decide for themselves, then it’ll make a difference, and people in power will hear that there’s an issue here and they will address it. I really believed at that point. You know, they just don’t know. 

Heather: Yes. I know. I know that. 

Leslie: I thought government just doesn’t know that’s the problem, and if we just help them see, and we help the public understand that there’s some substance to this debate, that the people who are saying this aren’t crazy. That their children have been injured and that there’s something going on and that the science isn’t proper and they haven’t used placebos and that they don’t use adequate or appropriate control groups, and, you know, there’s just holes in it and that the vaccine makers have no liability, then people will embrace this, and wanna do something. And actually, we were met with censorship. Sundance censored the film, despite the fact that their head programmer and her team wanted the film in. 

Heather: Right, right. The same with Vaxxed-

Leslie: This is very, very high-level coordinated efforts to take people like me down. And so at first, it bothered me, and then I was just like, whatever.

Heather: It’s just what it is, and you know, it really is history. I mean, things are gonna change. I’m an optimist because I’ve been part of this for a long time, realizing that it’s just- people will start waking up. In the 18 hundreds, the reason the medical doctors hitched their wagon to the scientific was that the population said, no, we’re not gonna go for this mercury and bloodletting because it’s killing our friends and family, and they needed another way, so that they could still stay in business, cuz it really is a business for many. And I think that that’s what’s happening now is that people are because of your efforts and because of all these things that are going on the consciousness. There’s nothing they can do about that consciousness. It will come to the people, and the people are going to know they are gonna understand how the body works. They’re gonna realize that all these children are hurt by vaccinations and all the other things that we do to them and that you’re a hero.

Leslie: Your sweet, thank you. I just know I couldn’t live with myself. I mean, that’s why I started Health Freedom Defense Fund, was because I could see what was happening. I could see what was coming. They’d been putting all of these different puzzle pieces in place in order to actually implement the kind of draconian measures that they have done in the last two years, they had to do a huge amount of legislation and things over recent decades in order to get to the place where it was actually viable. And so when 2020 opened, and I started hearing about what was going on, I knew it was happening and that’s why I started Health Freedom Defense Fund. And I had the great fortune- I would say that God was smiling on me and brought some very, very accomplished, experienced commercial litigators into my life, and they helped me, and they are the ones who, without them, we wouldn’t have won the lawsuit, right? The mask mandate and I wouldn’t have been able to sue. We are in a major lawsuit against the Los Angeles Unified School District right now.

Heather: Oh, thank you. 

Leslie: The second largest school district in the United States, and they were the first school district to shut down, and they shut down the night after the United Teachers Union of Los Angeles met with Dr. Fauci. Literally, the night before. Yeah, anyway, my point is that all of the stuff, life leads you where it leads you, and It led me to these attorneys, and it also led me to do all the stuff I’ve done in the last 20 years. And so when 2020 unfolded, I knew I wanted to do something, and so I started Health Freedom Defense Fund, and you could find it at And we educate about our rights and freedoms because most people don’t even know what their rights and freedoms are. It’s amazing, and it’s because they’ve taken it out of schools. Schools are not teaching basic civics anymore. College kids have no idea what their rights are. Anyway, so we’re educating and advocating in defense of our rights. And then, when necessary, we sue. And so we have filed, we have three lawsuits active against the federal government, the one against the Los Angeles Unified School District, several others, and then a bunch in the works against some big name companies.

Heather: Wow. That’s great, wonderful. 

Leslie: Yeah. 

Heather: Well, I just wish you all the best, and just keep going. What you’re doing it’s awesome. That’s beautiful.

Leslie: We’re doing our best, and you know, we will keep going, but we need people’s support. These lawsuits are expensive, so for people who can donate, and it doesn’t matter if it’s $5 or $500 or whatever, every single donation helps. Somebody did a fundraiser for us, a guy named Jeff Childers, who’s an attorney in Florida and has a great blog. We had some people donate a dollar, we had some people donate a thousand dollars, but you know what, all told, it was over a hundred thousand dollars.

Heather: Wow!

Leslie: Because you know, you give what you can, that you’re not gonna miss, and everything’s okay, and that is the power of the people, right? He calls it an operation multiplier. And if you are passionate about health, and you’re passionate about freedom, and you’re passionate about defending our way of life, then we are grateful for every single penny of support. 

Heather: Right, wow, that’s fantastic. Well, it’s great to talk to you, Leslie. Maybe in the future, we can get together again and talk, and you’ll be telling me all your wins. 

Leslie: So we just filed our appeal in the mask mandate lawsuit yesterday. As I mentioned, DOJ is appealing it, so we filed our answer to their appeal, and then they will get to file a reply to that in two weeks, and then in the next couple of months, we’ll find out whether or not the appellate court upholds, the lower court’s decision or overturns it. We’re super hopeful, so please send us your prayers. But we’re very, very clear that the CDC is overstepping its authority and that its mask order was arbitrary and capricious. So that’s the thing that’s really right on the screen right now, and then next up that’s going to be big are these private actors that we’re going over, and I can’t divulge the names yet. But we’ve also filed a citizen petition against FDA, and we’re gonna follow up with a lawsuit against them, and we are going to sue Pfizer, and we’ve got so many things in the works. So yes, I will definitely come back and talk to you.

Heather: I think it’s just so great. Oh, it’s just so great. I’ve lived my whole life with feeling like I have this information myself and with treating patients and stuff, but so many people just are stepping up in so many different avenues and going to make it better.

Leslie: Very much so, and that’s the thing. We all have to remember that they are the few, we are the many-

Heather: That’s right. 

Leslie: We stand up. We build our own communities in the way that we want them. Theirs will fall. 

Heather: Yeah, and we are the truth. 

Leslie: Heather. Thank you so much for having me.

Heather: It was awesome. Talk to you again soon.

Leslie: Sounds great. Thanks a bunch. Have a beautiful day. 

Heather: You too. Bye