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Leslie Speaks with Josh Trent on his Wellness + Wisdom Podcast

By April 5, 2022September 14th, 2022No Comments

“We get to rebuild the world that we want to live in and we will. We’ll start by doing that in our own communities. As scary and uncomfortable as that feels, we were born for this day and we get to actually create the world that you and I have been talking about and envisioning for so many years.” – Leslie Manookian


Visit Josh’s Wellness Force website here for more viewing and listening options. Also, check out the amazing work they are doing in the world in support of their mission to help men and women discover physical & emotional intelligence to live life well.

You can read the transcription of Josh and Leslie’s discussion below. 

Josh: Leslie, welcome back. We have had quite the journey since you came on in 2020. How are you? 

Leslie: Hasn’t it been crazy? Gosh, it was May of 2020.

Josh: Like something kind of a movie. I feel like we’re living in a movie, Leslie. 

Leslie: And I remember you saying that after the recording that you had so many comments and stuff, that it was one of the craziest responses you’ve ever had and-

Josh: It was.

Leslie: We’re kind of in another one of those crazy situations, but I’m doing, you know, really well. I’ve taken all of that foresight that I had about what was happening and focused is in focused it in, on trying to create a solution. And so that’s what I’ve been doing. And I’m pretty, even though I don’t have a newborn baby like you do. I’m underslept as well cause I’m working so much, and you know, and I just do everything I do because I care. I’m not making any money out of it or anything. It’s just because I want to make a difference on the planet, and so it’s very exciting.

Give people a little bit. 

It’s an exciting time to be alive, you know. 

Josh: It is. It’s an exciting time to be alive. And whenever has growth, if you look at a tree, when a tree grows through a rock or concrete, it has to go through a bit of a transformation process, and that’s what we’re going through. We’re going through a transformation process. A lot of the comments on our episode, we’re going to link that right below its episode 344, that was when we talked about a lot of things that were very polarizing, but one of the comments that I received time and time again were people trying to discredit you and people saying, well, she’s not a doctor, you know, what’s her background, blah, blah, blah. So let’s just take a breath and let’s just share your background quickly with people so that they know this has been a long journey for you, 15, 20 years of you doing very intensive research. So share with people your background if they didn’t watch 344. 

Leslie: Sure, and it even goes back further than just when I started researching vaccines. Basically, I went to the University of Chicago and got my MBA there. And when I graduated, I got hired by Goldman Sachs, and I went to go and work at Goldman Sachs in New York City. And they transferred me after a couple of years and they transferred me to the London office. So I was involved in European shares and European stocks. And when I was, there was at the very, very beginning of when technology stocks were starting to take off, and I decided and asked management if it was okay; I wanted to put on a telecom and technology conference, and so I did. I put on the very first ever European technology and tech conference that ever happened anywhere in Europe from any investment bank while I was at Goldman. And I’m sharing that because I was a telecom tech geek, but an analyst, you know, that’s like, I wasn’t an analyst when I was at Goldman, but that’s what I was really focused on is going deep into these things okay. And then, I left Goldman, and I went to go and work for one of my clients, which at the time was the largest publicly traded asset management firm in the world Alliance Capital, and there I became the telecom and technology analyst. I’m an analyst geek by nature. That’s what I do. Within ten months, I was running the research department. I’d been promoted to head of European research for Alliance. And within a short period of time, after that, I was also head of portfolio management. So I was responsible for running the research teams and deciding which European stocks would go into our global or international and European portfolios. I’m an analyst. That’s what I do. That’s what I did on Wall Street. But I saw some things on Wall Street which I found very disquieting, to say the least. For instance, I had the CEO of a giant pharmaceutical company tell me that he knew that his new blockbuster drug was going to kill some people but that the good news was they still would do 7 billion in peak sales off of the back of this drug. And I just, for me, it was just a massive wake-up call that I was not doing something that I felt really good about. It was actually soul-destroying for me, and I needed to change. So I did that. I was on Wall Street for 11 or 12 years somewhere in there. But I was sick, and I didn’t know why I was sick, and I was getting sicker and sicker and sicker, and I kept going to the doctor, and finally, my doctor said, I know you’re sick, you know you’re sick. I can’t help you, and Western medicine can’t help you go and see an acupuncturist or a homeopath. And that really started my kind of healing journey in earnest. I ended up enrolling in homeopathy school. On the very first day during orientation, I heard about some controversies around the whole V-word debate. I don’t wanna get you flagged again. 

Josh: Yeah, that’s okay. You can mention it. 

Leslie: Okay. 

Josh: We just won’t put it in the title. 

Leslie: Okay. Anyway, the whole vaccine debate and the thing is, I had never, ever challenged or questioned anything about vaccines. I’d always gotten every shot. I got lined up at school when I was a kid, I was born in 1964, and they were rolling smallpox out and things like that. Was it smallpox? No, I can’t remember what it was now. The big one that you get in your arm, but anyway, What happened was I learned about the debate. I read a book called Vaccines: Are They Really Safe and Effective? And I couldn’t believe that this book had over 960 footnotes in it, and I thought this just can’t be right. It documented a huge spectrum of adverse reactions to these shots. And I thought they were life-giving, right? I thought there was no downside. In fact, I thought they were so life-giving that I went before I went to Southeast Asia before I started my job at Goldman in New York. In 1992, I went to the health center at the University of Chicago and said, I’m going to Southeast Asia for two months. I need my shots. And the nurse said, what do you want? And I said, well, whatever you want. And I literally put my arms out, and she just gave me, and I think she gave me every childhood vaccine, and she gave me typhoid and cholera and Hep A and B and anything and everything that was available. And I’ve never been the same since. 

Anyway, that whole experience spurred me to go and do my own research and find out whether or not what was in that book was true or not. And I made The Greater Good, an award-winning documentary on vaccines. And we spoke with people from CDC, FDA, major vaccine developers, and patent holders. And then those who challenge them and question them. People like Barbara Loe Fisher of the National Vaccine Information Center and Dr. Larry Palevsky, who is a well-known pediatrician who speaks out on these issues and treats kids to try and help recover them, and also just is a pediatrician who treats children. Anyway, made that movie and then spent 7-8 almost ten years. If you’ve ever made a documentary film, you know that it is like a major opus. It’s not something that you do in a few months. We made a feature-length Oscar kind of quality submission. And then afterward, I traveled the world speaking and everything and did everything I could, and I really thought, I mean, I was so naive. I thought, well, gosh, if we just tell people what’s going on, then the people in power will do something about it. If we just go and bring this to the public’s attention, then those in power will address it. And actually, it was just the opposite. We were derided and smeared. And the doctors that we talked with, the scientists, they got their funding cut. I mean, it was horrible what happened, Josh, really. But also eye-opening. So, I mean, I did all this research for a very long time, and then come to 2020, when 2020 first hit, I knew within the first few days of January that something really bad was going to happen and that we were going to face what I’d been worrying about for 20 years. And the reason I’ve been worried about it for 20 years is that people have to understand that they’ve been putting in place for decades all the different mechanisms to actually lock us down, to take away our rights and do what they did in the last two years. It didn’t happen overnight. First, you had the Patriot Act in 2001, and two weeks later, you had the Model State Emergency Health Powers Act. So the Patriot Act allows warrantless surveillance of Americans, which hitherto had been illegal. And then you had the PREP Act, sorry, the Model State Emergency Health Powers Act legislation, which was introduced two weeks after that in October of 2001, and that legislation is really important. It’s been ratified and whole or in part in 43 states. And what’s interesting is that legislation in different pieces allows or it accords extraordinary powers to state health departments and governors in the event of a disease outbreak. Imagine that, and then in 2005, we had the PREP Act, which then granted all this extraordinary power to the president and HHS during an epidemic and importantly provided immunity from any kind of lawsuits, financial or legal. So anyway, when 2020 came along and then you and I met in April or May and had a call, I knew what was going on, and I decided that I was going to do something about it. And so I founded Health Freedom Defense Fund, and Health Freedom Defense Fund is my nonprofit, which seeks to educate people about all sorts of health issues. Most importantly, about bodily autonomy, the importance of that, and about our rights and challenges when necessary. So all I’ve been doing for the last two years pretty much is filing lawsuits, and Health Freedom Defense Fund has helped tens of thousands of people across the country to fight back against these illegal, unethical mandates. So that’s what I’ve been doing. 

Josh: Yeah, and it’s such a wild time that you’d even have to form an organization to defend our health freedom. I mean, just that alone. And it’s something that on November 12th, Health Freedom Defense Fund, Federal Employees For Freedom, and several individuals, you being one of them, filed suit in the middle district of Florida against President Biden and the Safer Federal Workforce Task Force, challenging federal vaccination mandate for all federal employees. How did that pan out? I’ve been really curious about that. 

Leslie: It’s still working its way through the court’s Josh. Several lawsuits are. So one thing that people need to understand is that when you file a lawsuit, it’s a long process. It doesn’t just get resolved overnight. And even if something called a preliminary injunction is granted. That doesn’t mean that the lawsuit’s over. It just means that whoever’s trying to do something has to stop it. So there’s been an injunction against that policy until the merits of the case are heard. And so in that specific case, what’s going on is that there has been an injunction, a preliminary injunction. So I mean, it’s temporary, it’s not permanent, blocking the Biden administration from mandating the shots for federal employees. In another case, they filed a preliminary injunction right before Christmas. We filed in November before any of the Attorneys General from the different states got involved, and basically, the whole momentum of what was going on shifted in December when these Attorneys General got involved. And they started to get some preliminary injunctions granted by the courts. And now what’s happening is we’re waiting for a motion to transfer our lawsuit to another judge and then deciding what we’re going to do. But basically, this other case that’s similar has gotten a preliminary injunction, and now we’re just waiting to see what happens in ours. But the next thing is, I mean, we feel very, very confident that the merits of our case are legitimate and that they will be upheld in the courts. It’s just that it takes a long time. And so that’s going on. Then we have a federal travel mask mandate lawsuit that’s going on, and that should be heard- we could get a decision in early April on that. Anyway, we have so many lawsuits, so there are so many of these going on. They’re not resolved, and it just takes time. So even if there is a preliminary injunction, that just means it’s that the policy is paused while the case is heard.

Josh: Hmm. I’ve had so many people write in, and so many people that have just been really passionate and like their whole lives have been changed. Bankruptcy. I can’t even begin to think about how many hundreds of millions of dollars in bankruptcy, just in America. And then, if you expand that to the world that people have suffered through because of this really attack on bodily autonomy. So let’s start there. Like how would you even describe that? Cuz that word, I think, gets thrown around people that might not be presenced to that word, bodily autonomy. What does that actually mean, and then can you juxtapose that based on where we actually are in the legality of this whole mess? 

Leslie: The United States was formed on the ethical and moral principle that we are sovereign beings, each and every one of us. That we have bodily autonomy that we get to decide how we live our lives, what we put into our bodies, how we keep ourselves well, how we direct the upbringing of our children, and everything, okay. Bodily autonomy means just that. That you are a sovereign being and that your rights come from our creator, whatever you believe that might be, okay? It’s so fundamental to everything it means to be American. And yet what has happened over the last 250 years is that those foundational principles have been undermined literally submarined by our ruling elite. And so we’ve gotten to this place now where you’re constantly hearing, oh, you have to do something to save someone else. You have to do this because it’s for the greater good, which was the name of our movie. In order to make people reflect on it, right? Not because we were endorsing it. One of the pivotal, you know, truly seminal events that happened, of course, was the second world war and the Nuremberg trials and the Nuremberg code that came out of the second world war decided that utilitarianism, the notion that it’s okay to harm some in service to the many is morally reprehensible. It was decided then and there that we would never do that again, that it wasn’t okay to experiment on human beings for the benefit of the greater community. It’s just not okay. And so that reinforced what we believe as Americans and what our country was founded on. But what’s happened is that there’s been all this legislation that’s kind of undermined that over the decades, and so we’ve come very, very far from that principle. And there’s a bunch of legal issues, which I can go into on that, but the fundamental idea is that bodily sovereignty is that you own your body. You own your body that no one else does, and no one else can tell you what to do with it. And you own your children’s body. 

Josh: You know, it’s interesting. We experienced this firsthand, and I have never talked about this on a podcast. So I’ll tread lightly because I want to respect my partner and my son, and my family. But we actually, we had to go to the NICU when my son was born, and we had to literally defy the medical system and say, we’re taking our son home. They wanted to do a spinal tap. They wanted to do all these unnecessary tests that put his health in danger. And I turned to the physician, and I said, so you’re telling me that if there’s a 0.0001 chance of him having this thing, or if it’s a hundred percent chance you treat it the same. And he turned to me, and he said, that’s right. And I thought to myself, how asinine is this? That just in case your neighbor might have something that would affect your family. Like they might have a child that would play with your child and maybe alter the state of your child, that is the parent’s right to decide where your children hang out with, who they hang out with, and especially for me, especially, what needles and what procedures happen to my baby, to my son. 

Leslie: Yeah. 

Josh: And it was a moment where we had to have a CPS form that was filled out for child protective services. There was this huge buff dude that came to our house the day we brought our son home. I mean, it was an absolute abomination. And I said to the gentleman that came to our house, I was like, do you believe that you’re doing this? And he’s like, you know, honestly, I can’t believe I’m here. Like he was caught up in the system himself, the chains and really just the ancient mindset around the state knows better than you, the parent, the state knows better than you, the human do what we say. Not what the data actually reflects. So let’s talk about the data. I mean that that’s just something that we can start with. 

Leslie: Question for you first. The ancient belief. You think that’s an ancient belief, really? That the state knows best?

Josh: Well, ancient meaning when the state was formed, but not ancient to you and I as humans, not that type of ancient.

Leslie: Okay. 

Josh: Ancient, like the fact that the IRS and many government institutions still use a fax machine that kind of ancient. 

Leslie: Okay. I just wanted to really clarify that because,

Josh: Yes, that’s what I meant.

Leslie: Especially if you look at, I mean, you know what the Declaration Of Independence says, right? It says that this is a government we are forming by of and for the people.

Josh: Yeah. 

Leslie: And that all power in the government is derived from the people, which we could take away. So this idea that someone has any power over you is nonsense. But we have been brainwashed and programmed to believe that the government is the parent for decades. If not close to a century. Which I’m happy to unpack as well because there’s a huge agenda at play for all of this. And I just want to say; that I have friends who have family members who they’ve told hospitals that we do not want our child to get Hep B at birth or something like that. And these vigilante nurses take the children and inject them anyway. So be very careful when you go into those places, you know? 

Josh: Yes. One thing on that before we talk about the data is that was my, and I guess you could say, introduction to really what I believe is somewhat of a demonic energy that is infiltrated the Western medical system. And look, I understand that sometimes people break legs, and sometimes the medical system is really needed. So I’m not here to 100% demonize the medical system, but from my experience and what I’m sharing with you, that I’ve never shared on a podcast before, it was profound the level of darkness that I experienced. And so let’s talk about the data when it really comes to the people that are being affected right now from your research and the people that have had their bodily autonomy broken, really just no informed consent whatsoever. Are there any figures, or is there any information you can share with us about this? I mean, we can talk about VAERS, we can talk about anything you want, but let’s start with something for people’s logical minds. I mean, I gave my story about my son, but for people that don’t have children or for people that have never entered the medical system like that, what’s really happening from a data perspective or just from an anecdotal research perspective?

Leslie: Oh my gosh, Josh, it’s so huge to unpack. I guess I’d say I think there are three major things that people should be taking into account. First of all, is that a life insurance company came out a little over a month ago and said that there had been a 40% increase in death amongst 18 to 65-year-olds. That’s not related to COVID, okay? Now that is an extraordinary number. The CEO of the company said that a 10% increase would’ve been what’s considered a two Sigma event or two standard deviations, and then that equates to a 1 in 200-year event. So that’s an extraordinary event. This 40% increase is something that statistically should happen once in every roughly 2 billion years. I’m rounding up a little bit. What that tells us is that it’s not chance, and that is just for the year 2021. And what’s the only thing that was different in 2021, compared to every other year that’s ever happened, that’s ever passed the injections? So then, on the heels of that, a board member of a major medical insurer in Germany wrote a letter to the Paul Ehrlich Institute, which is like the CDC in Germany. And he said, listen, our data does not equate to your data. Our data on injuries and deaths and things from these shots shows that if we were to extrapolate it to the whole population because I think their database was like 11 million people. If we were to extrapolate it to the entire German population of 90 million, I think is what it is roughly. It would equate to 3 million people being injured and killed instead of being applauded for speaking out and saying what the experience of this insurance company was. He was fired right before a meeting between his board, himself, he was a board member, and the Paul Ehrlich Institute, and basically, it’s just, what’s happened constantly since this whole thing began, is that the voices of reason and the voices who are trying to, you know, exhort a little bit of caution are being silenced. So he was fired. He was canned. He didn’t do anything wrong. He actually said, listen, this is the data. It doesn’t add up. It doesn’t jive with what your federal data is, so what’s going on here? And that’s echoed in the United States, of course, by this life insurance company, but it’s also then echoed by there was some Department Of Defense data that was leaked, which showed extraordinary numbers. And these are in healthy, young recruits, right? Extraordinary numbers of injuries and death, all sorts of things from neurological problems and seizures and heart issues, heart problems, and all these things to more benign things, but serious, serious issues and an increase in death as well, amongst these young, healthy people. And then you have the document dumps that have been happening with respect to the Pfizer clinical trials. And so there have been two things just to clarify, a few months ago, there were some documents leaked. I don’t know if they were hacked or how they were gotten to, but those have been released, and there’s like a 30 or 40-page document, which comes from the Pfizer clinical trials. And it lists nine pages, literally nine pages, just one thing after the other comma, comma, comma, you know, it’s something like 1200 or 1500 different adverse reactions noted in the data that Pfizer submitted to FDA. And this was known in April of 2021, and yet they continue these shots okay. So then, more recently, as of March 1st, we’ve seen the it’s the nonprofit portion of the High Wire. They have filed FOIA’s, Freedom Of Information Act requests, and they have received documents. You know, basically, the FDA tried to block, FDA tried to block the release of the Pfizer documents. I just want everybody to really digest that for a moment. A regulatory health agency that is supposed to serve your interest, the public interests, asked a federal court to block the release of Pfizer’s clinical trial data. There’s something wrong, seriously wrong with that, right? So this is starting to come out. And what we’re seeing is that there were 45,000 people in the clinical trials, 42,000 people reported some kind of systemic, some kind of adverse reaction, many of which, if not, most of which were systemic. And we’re talking things from herpes outbreaks like it’s an exaggeration, there’s been this problem with a kind of reinvigoration of latent infections. We’re seeing that across the board, rashes, tons and tons of heart issues, myocarditis, pericarditis, and heart attacks. Literally, it’s like 1500 things, you know, different things. Blood clots and seizures and brain problems, and depression. And I mean, it’s crazy what has happened. And we have to put this in context, Josh, because, you know, I made this documentary, right? I’m a researcher. I spent eight years basically researching before I ever made the film. And the data that we had before already showed that these jabs all jabs, not just these COVID injections, but all jabs are connected to autoimmune conditions like rheumatoid arthritis, they’re connected to autism. They cause seizures and neurological complications. They cause deaths, and they can cause an exaggeration or exacerbation of different kinds of recent infections and a recurrence of them. I mean, all these problems, right? They kill some people. They kill some recipients. That’s a known fact. But these new jabs that have been introduced are causing these symptoms, this whole spectrum of injuries and adverse reactions at a rate that we have never, ever seen before. In fact, it’s a thousand times as high as what we’ve ever seen. If you look at all the data that goes along for 30 or 40 years, you’ll see this number of deaths. It’s a little bit each year, and then it’s like this, it’s off the chart. And if you just look back to the swine flu outbreak in 1976, there were about 50 serious adverse reactions, including deaths and Guillain-Barre and all these things. I think there actually might have been a few hundred Guillain-Barre, maybe 600 or 700, but the shots were withdrawn from the market. After fewer than, or about 50 deaths, we’re now talking about 10,000 plus. It may be close to 20,000. I haven’t looked in the last few weeks. It’s extraordinary, and the people who are independent researchers looking at the VAERS data, and there are whistleblowers as well, telling us this from CDC and other places that the true number of deaths in the United States alone is probably closer to 150,000, maybe more. So those numbers are ridiculous. They say it’s a little bit over 10,000. If you look worldwide in Europe, there’s 30 or 40,000 deaths that have been reported, and yet these things are not being pulled off the market. And I think we all have to ask ourselves, if this is about public health, why are we not following the guidelines that we have followed for decades in the past? Why has it changed? 

Josh: Because it’s never been about health. I mean, since day one, it’s never been about health, and you know, it’s interesting. The word data gets thrown around a lot. I even asked you that I was like, what’s the data saying? Whoever’s figuring out the data, whoever controls the data sets, whoever’s sitting with the spreadsheets, your background is an immense amount of research and logistics around numbers and data. How easy is it for the data to be manipulated? And by the way, who gathers it, who disseminates it, and who publishes it? When we talk about the data, what does that actually even mean? 

Leslie: Well, let me unpack that in a kind of a roundabout manner, but it essentially, it means nothing. Have you ever heard of the book How To Make Statistics Lie?

Josh: No, but it sounds like, from the title, I understand what it is.

Leslie: It’s a little tiny book. I had to read it in high school, or maybe it was in college. I can’t remember. It was a course I took. So let’s just look at two things. First of all, when you look at the COVID data, okay. They took the Pfizer trial, and they looked at roughly 20,000 people in each group, the VAX and the placebo group. I’m just rounding, okay, 20,000 people. And they found that in the VAX group, there were about 10 cases. And in the placebo group, there were about 169 cases, okay. So it was a difference between like 0.1%. I haven’t looked at these numbers in a while, so these are very close, but they’re not exact, but basically, you went from 0.1% to 0.5% or something like that. They said that there was a, you know, a 95% reduction, but that’s because there’s a 95% difference between 0.1 and 0.01 and 0.1%. Does that make sense? 

Josh: Mm-hmm 

Leslie: Absolute change. That’s the relative risk that they are touting in the media, okay? This is how you make statistics lie. That’s relative risk. So you had a, let’s just round it. You had a point 1% chance of getting the infection if you got the shot, and you had a 1% chance of getting it if you didn’t get the shots. So you had a 99 to a 99.9% chance of not getting it, whether you got it, the shot or not. That’s the absolute risk is almost zero on both accounts. And the relative risk is 0.95% because if you, do you understand what I’m saying? If I did the math, I could explain it to you, but basically, instead of saying, what’s the absolute risk of even contracting this, they focused on the relative because that’s the way that they can manipulate the numbers into making you think that the shots were really efficacious when they were not.

Josh: And when you say the relative, can you go into that? The relative? 

Leslie: Okay, so you get the jab, the risk of getting an infection is 0.1%, okay. You don’t get the jab, the risk of getting the infection is 1%, that’s a 0.9% difference that’s relative, but the absolute risk comparatively is 99 compared to 99.9% because only 0.1%. Does that make sense? 

Josh: Yes. 

Leslie: I’m not a statistician. So I’m probably not explaining this very clearly, but basically, instead of looking what’s the absolute risk, the absolute risk of you even getting it according to their initial data at the worst was 1%, okay. And if you got the jab, then it was 0.1%. Now, how do you compare those two. That’s relative risk. Basically, you take 0.1 minus the, and I can’t. I would need to write it down and think it through, but basically, it’s a 90% difference, and that’s where they came up with their 95% difference in, but it was relative, not absolute. Think about it if you went to a mechanic and 99% of the time, it didn’t do anything, would that be good? 

Josh: No, they would say it’s not doing it. And I know this cuz I used to be an automotive technician in a past lifetime. 

Leslie: But you wouldn’t want anything, right? You want it to reduce it to change things dramatically, and it didn’t. So what you would’ve wanted to see is that 90% of the people were getting this, and the reduction, the absolute reduction was down to 10%. But the truth was that you barely ever got it, 1% of the people were getting it even in the placebo group. And that improved to 0.1% in the injection group. That’s a relative improvement of about 90%.

Josh: Yeah, and to me, it hits home because I think about how easily I’m on Instagram a lot for my business, and I’m on Facebook, and I’m in the media, as are you. And the thing that hits me the hardest is if it just took 30 days. Let’s say you consumed no media at all, and we weren’t even talking about statistics. We weren’t even talking about the relative or the percentages, and you just walked outside, and you observed human behavior. You would know in your soul. You would know in your intuition that something was wrong, that people were afraid that literally freedom itself has not just been attacked in the past couple years, but especially with the advent of these passports and the digital tracking and everything else. I mean, just in the end of February, the CDC came out with new guidelines on where the heat map went from, like all red to completely orange, and it was overnight. And it was actually when Ukraine got invaded by Russia and I-

Leslie: Josh, I have to tell you something. It wasn’t even overnight. They literally changed their calculation, and instantaneously the number went from 90% of serious counties, I think is what it was serious regions, to 30%. It fell 60% at the. Click of a button. 

Josh: So when someone pushed that button. So this Health Freedom Defense Fund, what is your company? What is your organization doing to shed light on just that one aspect, the malleability of data, and really the attack on our autonomy of self of body? Like how is Health Freedom Defense Fund nuts and bolts coming to the world and serving and helping people? What does that look like? 

Leslie: Yeah. So let me just say really quickly if I can, cause I never finished the second piece. I just wanted to tell you that the federal government funded research through Harvard Pilgrim HMO many years ago. I don’t know if it was ten years ago or so. And they wanted to find out what the true number of events was to injections, okay. And also how many of them were being reported. And what they found out was that fewer than 1% of all adverse reactions are ever reported to VAERS, the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System, and they also found something else out that was really terrifying, which is that about two and a half percent of all recipients suffered a reaction. So this idea that it’s super rare is one of the most, one of the biggest lies ever told by the federal government and by our health agencies, it’s not rare, and they’re not being counted because people don’t know what to look for. No one knows that there’s a reporting system. The system is onerous. Doctors don’t do it and all that. So I just think that was the second piece. I think it’s really important to understand and what happened when this data started coming to light and the federal agencies were doing it. One sister agency says, hey, this is really interesting. What are we gonna do about this? Silence, they shut it down, and they never talked about it again. They shut the program down. It was supposed to go five years. It went on for two years, and it was squashed. So there are your health agencies. This is HHS.

Josh: It makes the hair on my arms stand up. Actually, when you said that, I didn’t know. 

Leslie: I’m constantly telling myself, stay in love, Les, stay in-

Josh: Sure.

Leslie: Like it’s so hard to not be angry and to not hate, it really is. 

Josh: And I think that the ultimate challenge, too, is everyone’s patience and will, is being tested. And so right now, it’s so important for us to practice emotional hygiene. Emotional intelligence, meditation, sauna, cold therapy, loving connection, honest, authentic communication, nonviolent communication. But we live in an age of violence, but it’s happening on a very subtle level. So the violence that’s occurring, it’s occurring through illegal taxation. It’s occurring through bodily autonomy laws that are being broken or maybe laws that were never even put into place, and so with the Health Freedom Defense Fund, it’s not like you have a bunch of soldiers that you’re putting out into the United States. This is something very different. So for people that don’t know anything about the Health Freedom Defense Fund, how does it operate? 

Leslie: So, Health Freedom Defense Fund is, it’s a few of us, doing as much work as we possibly can. And what we have is we have a legal team that we work with, Davillier Law Group, and some other law firms, but that’s our main group that we work with. And what we do is we have groups of people who come to us. Originally, Josh, you know, I wanted this to be, and I hope longer term it will be this, that it will be just helping somebody like you who gets in a pickle. There’ve been crazy cases in the last ten years where, you know, a family in Arizona had their door broken down by CPS at 1:30 the morning because they didn’t take their child to the doctor when the kid had a fever or to the emergency room. The fever broke; the mom was like, kid’s okay, no need to go. CPS comes and breaks down the door at 1:30 in the morning and takes the kids, right? These are the kinds of things I hope we’ll have to deal with in the future. Of course, I don’t wanna deal with it, but I hope it’s on that smaller scale where there might be some, one crazy person, right? But what happened and what we’re doing is that this is a massive agenda, a global agenda that’s being put in place over many, many decades. I’m sorry to say that, but it’s true. And I can provide you the evidence that explains that and proves it. But basically, what happened was, you know, I believe God brought a man into my life at the end of 2019 who is a highly accomplished international commercial litigator. And like I said, I believe God brought him into my life because he had such experience, but he was also in the kind of later stages of his career. He didn’t need to worry about who he was attacking. If you go to one of the big, really accomplished law firms, they won’t touch what we do. They don’t want to sue the pharmaceutical industry or the federal government. They are not interested in these kinds of things, and they won’t go anywhere near it. Literally, most of the best law firms won’t. But this man has done some incredible things, and he was brought into my life at the end of 2019. And I started telling him about the whole vaccine issue and what was unfolding, what I believed and started Health Freedom Defense Fund. So what we’ve been doing is we, unfortunately, were inundated with thousands and thousands and thousands of emails and requests for help, and so we had to actually stop trying. I mean, you can’t physically reply to all those people. And so what we did was we said listen, we wanna help as many of you as possible, and that requires that you form groups at your employers and then help us because we don’t have the funding to do all of this. These lawsuits can be $300,000 to $500,000 each, and some of the bigger ones can be in the millions to tens of millions. You know, the bigger things that we have planned will cost millions of dollars. So we said, listen, we want to help as many of you as possible. So organize yourselves, form groups, and start raising money. The other thing is you can help share the financial burden, and then we’ll work with you. And so, we have filed over a dozen lawsuits and the last year and a half, which is an extraordinary accomplishment to anybody who knows how hard it is to file a lawsuit. 

Josh: Yes. 

Leslie: And we’ve sued two school districts over mask mandates. We’ve sued a city over a mask mandate. And those two of those are still in the works, are still live in progress. We have a lawsuit against the federal government for their travel mask mandate in the middle district of Florida right now. And I actually believe that the impetus between behind a lot of the mask mandates being repealed over the last few weeks was the motion for a cross-motion for summary judgment that we filed in late February, which is, I think, bulletproof, and it’s in front of a judge who is very reasonable and very Liberty oriented and I think there’s no doubt that the federal government overstepped its bounds, the CDC does not have the right to tell individuals, it has the right to regulate sanitation or, you know, issue rules relating to sanitation. So what’s happening is that the CDC is actually intruding into individuals’ private lives, and it doesn’t have that right. It can’t tell you to wear a mask. It can’t. What it can do is control animal outbreaks of disease or something, sanitation, things like that. It’s public health issues; it’s not private health issues, okay? And so we’re fighting that, that’s in federal court. And then we’ve got several groups. So we have the teachers and staff at the Los Angeles Unified School District. We’ve just gotten to discovery on that, which is a big, big accomplishment. I think that’s-

Josh: When you say discovery, what do you mean by that?

Leslie: What that means is that we actually get their documents now. We get to get their internal communications, and as far as I know of all the lawsuits that have been filed, this is the first one that’s gotten to that point across the nation, and so it’s really good. It means that they couldn’t get rid of us is what it means. So basically, what happens when you file a lawsuit is the first thing they try and do is they move the court to dismiss the case. They just wanna make it go away. So they motion to dismiss. They didn’t happen. It happened on the first one, the second time we sued LAUSD, they didn’t even try to get it dismissed, and I think it’s because they know they can’t. And so what’s happened is then we move to the stage of discovery. And so we have to give them all of our documentation supporting the case that we are arguing, which is that the vaccine mandate on staff and teachers is illegal and that it needs to be stopped. And so we provide them all a supporting documentation that the LAUSD has actually implemented a vaccine mandate that this is inappropriate and all these things. And then we get to see other internal communications. This is what happens at discovery. This is how you get all these document dumps and lawsuits because you survive to the discovery stage. It’s a really big accomplishment.

Josh: And so the LA one, sorry to interrupt you. The LA one, the LA story, has been the most bullish on the masks, the most bullish on the jabs. I mean, if there’s any city, any county in the entire United States that has just been like a fist in the air for taking away our autonomy, it’s been, Los Angeles. I am so excited about what y’all might find. I mean, is there anything you can share? 

Leslie: Well, first of all, I think just a little tidbit that’s really, really interesting to consider. We don’t have any data yet, so we’re just, we are giving them ours right now, and they gotta give us theirs. It makes me giddy to think about it, Josh, especially because of this. LAUSD was the first school district in America to lock down. They were the very first school district to shut down, no more school. Despite the fact that children had zero risk, okay? Statistically zero risk, but here’s what’s really interesting. Guess who met with the UTLA, which is the United Teachers of Los Angeles Union, the big union in Los Angeles, the night before the Los Angeles Unified School District shut down? Take a wild guess.

Josh: Uh, Biden?

Leslie: Anthony Fauci. 

Josh: Oh, interesting. 

Leslie: He went to Los Angeles, and he met with them. Very interesting, I think.

Josh: Also, what’s been happening too is like Fauci, so we’re recording this here at the beginning of March, actually at the end of March. And so when this comes out in April, I wonder, will people even hear from Fauci he’s just been missing? I’ve seen him on the side of milk cartons. He has been missing. This prominent figurehead that was every day on the news media with the bright red and white, and black ticker tapes. And now he’s gone. He’s literally gone. And I didn’t know that I didn’t know that he met with this teacher’s union in LA, and on the very next day, they were the first district that shut down. It’s no surprise, but why is he gone? And what is that all about? 

Leslie: So can I just say, just so you guys all know, we’re suing the Los Angeles Unified School District, the County and City of San Francisco, the City of Haley, Idaho, and the Blaine County School District in Idaho. We sued the University of Chicago. We are suing on behalf of over 6,000 federal employees who were the heroes in 2020 and now are being told that if they don’t get the jab, then they will lose their jobs. So that’s against the Biden administration. We’re suing on behalf of over 30,000 airline and travel industry workers that’s challenging the federal contractor and subcontractor mandate. Then we’ve got the federal travel mask mandate, and I know I’m forgetting something, but those are a few that we’re doing, just so you know. We’re pushing hard and representing all these groups, tens of thousands of people across the country. So I just wanted people to understand that’s what we’re trying to do at Health Freedom Defense Fund, and we need your help. We need your support. You can help us by becoming a member, and that costs $10 once. And you can help us by donating. You can help us by spreading the word all those kinds of things. The more you can help us grow people’s awareness of what we’re doing, that we’re trying to help you, the people, that helps all of us. So then, coming to your question about what happened to him. To me, Josh, what this illustrates perfectly is that we were the subject of a psychological operation for two years under COVID, and we are now being subjected to a new psychological operation. The hallmarks of which are essentially identical in both cases. Fauci served his purpose. Everybody focused on him for two years. And now we need to get away from the fact that the Pfizer documents are coming out, that all these lawsuits are proceeding, that it’s coming out, that these jabs are extremely harmful, and the data shows that you’re more likely to get sick and you’re more likely to get hospitalized, and you’re more likely to die if you’ve gotten the jab than if you haven’t. That’s what the data all over the world is showing from the UK, Scotland, Israel, and Denmark. I mean, this is what’s showing negative efficacy. That means you’re more at risk, not less, okay? They’ve got to do something in order to refocus our attention away to the new boogeyman, the new crisis, something else for us to focus on. And so I think Fauci has gone away because what we’re seeing is a psychological operation. And this is what this Dr. Mattias Desmond speaks about mass formation, that we’re all, most people, 30% of the people are like hardcore, hardcore hypnotized. 

Josh: Yes. 

Leslie: 40% are soft, and 30% are awake. 

Josh: It makes me sad and, in the past, has affected my health. And we did, when you came on the show in 2020, it was probably the most intensive backlash censoring, and just hurtful comments that I think I’d ever received as a podcaster and almost seven years of doing this. And that picked my attention and picked my attention up because I thought if I’m receiving this much attention, whether it be good or bad, we’re onto something here. And so it’s no surprise I had heard Malone’s interview, I believe he’s a physician that had the patent on some of these mRNA vaccine technologies, and he spoke very, very confidently about the misappropriation and the misuse of this technology. And this is the patent owner. So, everyone, I’m gonna link to Joe Rogan here, episode below this, but from where you sit now and what you’re doing with Health Freedom Defense Fund, do you have an optimistic viewpoint about the road ahead? I mean, a lot of this stuff can be pretty dark. It can be very saturating to the nervous system. So you’ve painted a very truthful yet pretty fricking uncomfortable painting of the past a hundred years or so for us. Where do we go from here? You know, what does the road ahead look like on both a subjective personal level and an objective societal level? Like what are the steps to repair and to heal and to move forward with love?

Leslie: So let me just say he was, Robert Malone, I think you’re talking about the Joe Rogan interview, right? 

Josh: Yes.

Leslie: Yeah. It’s phenomenal. I highly recommend people watch it. I also seriously recommend the Maajid Nawaz podcast, that is unbelievably good. He is so articulate and so well-spoken. He was involved with some terrorist groups. He never did anything violent, but he was actually recruiting them for, you know, for the kind of thought war, and he realized the error of his ways during imprisonment in an Egyptian prison for five years. Anyway, really seriously, look at that because it’s mind-blowing, and he’s all about trying to win an ideological war through love and diplomacy and peace and not through violence. So I highly recommend that. So, Malone, he helped develop it. He wasn’t – he’s not the sole patent owner, just to clarify that. He’s one of the patent owners.

He’s one of many people. But he was one of the first. I think he was the first person to actually figure out how to transfect a cell. And so that’s a big thing, but you know, it’s not like he owns it all or he’s profiting from it. I just wanna make sure that people understand that, you know, that he plays a huge role intellectually in all this, but he’s not profiting from it, not to my knowledge; I don’t think he’s ever said he has. And I’m pretty sure, and I’m quite sure he is not. But anyway, so what we’re trying to do is, Josh, how do I say this diplomatically? I don’t think there’s any way to say it. We are in, we are in a war, okay? It’s just that most people don’t realize it because no shots have been fired in this country, but we are in a spiritual war and an information war. And the spiritual war is between those who believe that you’re nothing more than a bag of bones and those who believe like you and I do that we’re much greater and more powerful and more important beings than that. I personally believe that we are individual points of consciousness, you know, spiritual beings, having a physical experience here in this physical reality. And I think it’s really important to understand that there are people like, have you seen this video from Yuval Noah Harari?

Yes, I have, and it was incredibly shocking. We’re gonna link that. It’s actually on, I think, rumble or some of the other sites because it’s been completely removed from YouTube.


Josh: Where human beings are essentially looked at as cattle. He’s a known transhumanist. 

Leslie: Yes, he is, and he says the idea that you have a soul that there’s something unique or special going on inside of you, that’s over. That’s what he says. That’s over. We can hack you. We can hack you, and we will. That’s what he says. That’s his whole argument. And this, of course, he is one of the technology advisors for the World Economic Forum. So the World Economic Forum, basically, has come out saying that there’s a huge future in front of us, which is transhuman.

Josh: And it’s also the future where you will own nothing, and you will like it. This is Klaus Schwab and his cronies.

Leslie: Somebody will own everything, right? You will rent what you need, they say. 


So you’ll rent from them, from the rulers. Anyway, so I’m sharing that, like painting that, because I think it’s so important to understand this backdrop is that there’s a war going on, and it’s really important because you have to know your enemy. And it’s so easy for those of us who are spiritually oriented to believe that every single person means good. And if you’re just kind and good and decent to them, that they will be kind and decent and good to you, and that’s not necessarily true. And I’m not saying that that is ever a justification for violence. It’s just that you have to understand that because you can’t just think that, you know, well, if I’m just nice, everything will be peachy. We have to be really strategic. We have to be intelligent, and yes, we have to. We have to lead with love, right? And so my new mantra is globalism is the problem, localism is the solution. And when I say that, what I mean is that we need to come together and build, strengthen, fortify, and reclaim our communities. We must reclaim them from the powers that are trying to centralize them under a one-world government. And that means doing everything you can to develop a local food system to develop a true healthcare system, not a sick care system, to create a local currency, because let me tell you, what’s coming next is the implementation of Central Bank Digital Currencies, they will destroy all of the cryptos. They’re already talking about it. In fact, Biden signed an executive order to instruct Janet Yellen and other federal agencies to evaluate the way to regulate, essentially, cryptocurrencies and digital assets. They’re going to take them over, and they’re going to then fold them all into the digital currency and- 

Josh: I have a healthy debate with you on that because of the block blockchains. 

Leslie: Let’s do it. 

Josh: Well, because of the blockchain tech, it cannot be compromised. The global ledger exists on so many different computers with so many different human beings there would have to be a mass formation, psychosis, so intense and so severe for people to literally stop mining and deleting records.

Leslie: But what they’ll say is it’s no longer legal; you can’t do it. I mean, listen, it’s a great thing, and it’s going away. I’m just saying it’s there’s serious danger here, okay? 

Josh: Well, there’s many wars to fight. 

Leslie: Yes. 

That is for sure. 


Josh: There’s a lot going on. 

Leslie: Yes. And so that’s, I’m just saying, look, they’ve already shown their cards. He just signed an executive order authorizing a review of what to do. And so again, it’s just coming back. I think local currency is a really good idea as well. 

Josh: What do you mean by that local currency?

Leslie: Well, you know, I remember like decades ago there was a local currency and a place in Boston, outside of Boston. You can actually, I mean, look, you could all agree that cowrie shells are your currency, right? 

Josh: And it’s funny, I had a conversation with Robert Breedlove; he’s a very huge proponent of Bitcoin and of cryptocurrencies. And I was listening to him speak, and he was talking about this concept of the oppressor and the oppressed. And it made complete sense to me, and it was like, this is why I love podcasting, cuz my mind gets expanded, like live right, and I’m listening to what you’re saying about health, and it’s the exact same model when it comes to money. And it’s the exact same model when it comes to real estate when it comes to really all things. And, and that is that we’re all waking up from a really long slumber here. And I think the best way that we can wake up isn’t to go out and shout for bloodshed in the streets. It’s to have community conversations on a ten-person, a hundred-person, a hundred thousand person level, where we can actually just practice the art of listening to one another. Again, I think a lot of the why that we’re in this spot in the first place, and I’m curious how you feel because we’ve just simply lost the art form of listening, and I’m having real conversations. The art of dialogue has been killed, and it’s because of cancel culture and because of really cognitive dissonance.

Leslie: I think there’s another piece Josh which is that there has been an agenda. So in 1913, a bunch of things happened. In 1913 the 16th amendment was passed, which allowed the federal government to tax American citizens okay. But there was an exemption written in the 16th amendment, and that was an exemption for the super-rich. They could put their money into giant private foundations, the Rockefeller Foundation, the Carnegie Foundation, Ford Foundation, that’s what happened, okay. And those foundations were investigated in the 1950s under a congressional committee called the Reese committee. And the leader of the investigation was a lawyer by the name of Norman Dodd, and he went to many of these private foundations, and he asked them, you know, tell me what is your objective? And they actually told him, they said to install collectivism in America. Collectivism is a nice word for communism. That’s what it is okay, and that’s really important because those same foundations have captured science, medicine, academia, and the universities education. And this is critical because it connects into what you were just talking about. Yes, we have cancel culture. Yes, we have a need for dialogue, but how did it get there? It got there because we were dumbed down over many decades and because we’ve been brainwashed, those same groups own the media as well. Gates gave a billion dollars. The Gates Foundation gave a billion dollars “gave” to the media in the first decade of this century and about 300 million in the last several years. And so I would say that what’s really happened is that there’s been this massive agenda that unwitting Americans have been totally oblivious to and simultaneous to that Americans have gotten sick, fat, and happy. They’ve been too focused on their,

Josh: On just like, you know, gathering things like boats and cars and houses and all this stuff, and it’s just such a charade. It really is. 

Leslie: Yeah, and Josh, this is the thing; what did our founding fathers tell us? They said that we have a system of government that only works when the population is educated and moral. And what has been undermined in the last 50 years in this country tremendously is education and morality. And so what happens now is that we’re not on the same page educationally or moral-wise, and it’s really important. I just wrote a substack, and it’s also a blog on our website, all about, it’s called A Lesson In Civics, and it’s about the failure of Americans to engage because not only do we need to be moral and educated, but we have a duty freedom is not something that you just sit back and relax with. Freedom is something that’s defended. It is protected. It is asserted every single day. And it is our duty as Americans to defend it and to come together in love, to defend it, to say, what’s right, to say that I respect your choices and you respect mine, right? That’s where we have to go, and that’s the only solution.

Josh: All right, well, the solution exists right here in this podcast. Everybody can go to So it doesn’t have to be this massive financial thing. You can give ten bucks. You can organize in person. You can share this podcast. A lot of the concepts, a lot of the conversation we had, Leslie, probably took some people’s breath away, right? And that’s okay because wisdom isn’t always easily digested, and a lot of the reason why we shifted this podcast from Wellness Force to Wellness Wisdom is because I’ve learned, especially after becoming a father, some of the biggest and most powerful lessons I ever learned come from the most incredibly discomforting times. And I feel like we’re right there if society was a child and consciousness was a parent. I feel like we’re like 11, 12, 13 years old. We’re almost an adult. We’re still figuring out how to live, how to live in a very integrous way, and how to have harmony, but we’re just not there yet. And you know, my question to you, as we say goodbye, and we round out, is this, if we defend freedom and if we come together, do you feel there’s gonna be a natural bifurcation of people that don’t care and people that do when it comes to freedom, and what do you think that might look?

Leslie: So, a couple of responses to that. Number one is that I follow and have for eight or nine years now, a guy named Martin Armstrong, And I think he’s really, really worth paying attention to, and he has these models that predict that the United States will divorce essentially, that it will cease to exist after 2032. And that we will divide into those who care and those who don’t. And, you know, I posted on Facebook, do you remember when Ed Snowdens, when he revealed all the stuff about the prison program, how the NSA was spying on you and that you should cover up the camera on your computer and all these kinds of things. I posted about it on Facebook, and I said, you know, this should terrify all of us, and this childhood friend of mine wrote, what do I care? I’m not doing anything wrong? And I was just like, oh my gosh, we’re doomed. This is the thing there are people who’ve gotten to a point where they don’t really care. They are so apathetic. And that’s why I say there’s a spiritual war. There are those of us who wanna grow, and we want, I mean, I don’t say I relish the pain, but I certainly embrace it, right? I mean, I’ve had more dark nights of the soul at 58 than I can count, you know, but the thing is, I’m who I am because of that, right? 

Josh: Yeah.

Leslie: And these are the huge opportunities to grow and to go deeper and to become more conscious and aware every single day of who I am and to be the mother I dreamed of being and have been to my son, right? And this is what has to happen. And so I think we have to get to a point where. We have to accept that there are some people who choose a different path, and that’s okay. And we have to let them go. And so, yes, I believe that our country will bifurcate. 

Josh: Yes.

Leslie: I think that will happen. And I think that I guess the thing I wanna share most and leave you with is that I look at what’s happening in the first part of 2020. So I have done all this research for 20 years, and I also have a kind of bizarre capacity for vision, and I told my husband within the first couple of days of January of 2020, you mark my words China is locking down to teach the rest of the world, how to do it. This is all coming here. This is everything that I’ve been fearing for 20 years. Oh my gosh, it’s finally happening. And I spent the first four or five months of 2020 in deep pain because I knew what was coming, and I knew how bad it was going to get, and people around me kept saying, it’s not gonna get that bad. And, of course, everything that I said to them privately to my family has come true, and I spent those first four or five months crying a lot, Josh, because I had to grieve. I had to grieve that the life that we had known is gone. Now that’s really sad, but here is the beautiful part of that we get to rebuild the world we want to live in, and we will, and we start by doing that in our own communities. And the thing is as scary and uncomfortable, and it’s just uncomfortable, right? All the uncertainty. It’s frustrating. It’s intimidating. It’s all these things. We were born for this day. We were born for this time, and we get to actually create the world that you and I have been talking about and envisioning for so many years, right? For decades, I’ve been talking about the dangers of Roundup and the way that we live our lives. I’ve been talking about the dangers of modern medicine. I’ve been talking about all these things. We get to redo it, and that will happen. And so I try to, I’m trying to really pivot away from the loss and all the pain and all the sadness and all the fear toward the vision of what can come, what can be. And I think that’s what we all have to try and do. And remember that duty that it’s only gonna happen if we all engage, if we all get involved, if we all stand up and we all say, this is what we want, and we come together with those who want it as well. 

Josh: Beautifully put, and we’re in one hell of a theater, that is for sure. So by the time that I leave the planet and I educate my son and my future children and my community, the only thing that I’ll really have when my soul leaves the world is how I showed up. You know, was I honest? Was I noble? Did I tell the truth? Did I do my best? We talk about values and virtues a lot in the world, but to actually live them, to embody them, it’s much, much different than to pretend or to bolster that they’re there when they’re not. So, as we say goodbye, you know, what are you in belief that’s true about what do you feel in your body? What do you know to be true in your body about wellness now? With all the things you’ve been through with your adverse reactions to the shots you got to the mission you now lead with the Health Freedom Defense Fund, what do you believe is wellness now? I asked you this question in 2020 now, how would you define wellness now? What does that even mean to you to live your life well? 

Leslie: I think wellness is to live your life well. First of all, you have to feel inspired about what you’re doing. And my son’s a freshman in college, and he called me a few weeks ago, and he’s at a very elite institution, and he said, I wanna transfer. And I was like, okay. And he said, I don’t wanna become a mindless robot, and that’s what I see happening around me. And I think that’s just, wow, at 19, he gets that, right? It’s so beautiful. And I think it’s important, you know, there’s been a mass resignation. Have you heard about this?

Josh: No. 

Leslie: Something like 30 or 40 million people have quit their jobs now. Maybe it’s because- 

Josh: Oh yes, yes, I have heard of that. 

Leslie: Okay. I think a lot of it is because they didn’t wanna get the shots, but that’s not the only thing. 

Josh: Right.

Leslie: I think it’s also because part of the crisis has been that people have awoken to whether or not they’re happy in what they’re doing, and they don’t wanna be mindless robots. They wanna be something else. And so I think that’s really critical is that you have to do something that actually fulfills you, that inspires you. And I don’t think that you can be well unless you are doing something that fulfills you and inspires you. And secondly, I think you have to work on yourself enough to the point where, and I mean, I’m not saying that I’m there, you know, I work on myself every day. But that you keep working on those things, whether it’s anxiety or whether it’s anger or whatever it might be, suspicion or something, you know, it’s like, it could be all these things like, okay, that’s an interesting pattern that I have. And what am I gonna do about that? How am I gonna address that? And then thirdly, and so importantly is, you have to have community Josh, and I can tell you that since thankfully I’d been speaking out for so long that people in my small community all started reaching out to me in March, April, and May of 2020. And they were like calling me Les, what’s really happening because they knew that what was happening wasn’t right, but they couldn’t figure it out, and because I’ve been so involved for so long, they thought I would have a perspective on it. And what’s happened now is that I’ve created this community in my own community of people who are from all different walks of life, all different political spectrums, but they all care about freedom. They all know that they’ve been lied to, and they all want to have community. And I think if you don’t have those three things, you’re not gonna be well. 

Josh: Beautifully put. Also, I would say that we all need to breathe more and be less of a victim of the mind, a victim of the intellect. So there’s a lot of emotional hygiene practices that will link right here in this conversation with Leslie as well; is the site. Leslie, thanks for coming on the show. 

Leslie: Josh. Thank you so much for having me. It’s been my pleasure and my honor, and it’s just so wonderful to spend this time with you. Thank you. 

Josh: I’m glad that I have an ally, especially with all that’s transpired in the last couple of years. You guys get involved. Leslie is gonna be continuing her mission. You can continue the conversation at You can get all the show notes today as well, and we’ll link those right below. We’ll talk to you guys soon, and until we see you again, Leslie and I are both wishing you love and wellness.