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Serious Vaccine Injuries

By April 14, 2021October 17th, 2022No Comments

VIDEO: In this interview by Dr. Tom Cowan, Leslie Manookian, Founder of Health Freedom Defense Fund, explains the all too-common phenomenon of serious vaccine injury, and the journey that has led her to stand up in the fight to gain back our precious health and medical freedoms.

You can read the conversation between Dr. Cowan and Leslie below.

Tom: Thank you, everybody. This is another addition of Conversations with Dr. Cowan and Friends, and I have, once again, the honor of having Leslie Manookian, the producer of The Greater Good, which was a really good movie about vaccines. And I just want to say that some of you may have seen an interview with Leslie about a week ago because we did a live interview on Subscribe Star, which was meant to be recorded, only that one of us forgot to push the record button and it wasn’t Leslie, and the amazing thing about it is I don’t know, a few hundred people saw it live, and I got so many requests and then eventually angry “what happened to the video” and “I want to show it to my friends.” And unfortunately, I had to fess up. So, Leslie was gracious enough to agree to do a redo, so that’s what we’re doing here. So the agenda is basically the same. We would love to hear your story, how you got into this, and then what you know about vaccines in general, and then the Covid injections in particular. And something that really hit people was what you’re doing now that will help people to navigate what they can do and even how to participate in, i.e., donate and help your effort because it’s one of the best efforts I know of. So with that welcome, I thank you, and yes, so if you could start Leslie by just telling your story again, how you got into this, and then we can go from there.

Leslie: Sure. Glad to do it, Tom. And, No worries, I’ve done the same thing myself, so I’m sure it’s happened to most of us in some way. You know, we all have those little blips. So I’m glad to be back and even just having this conversation again. It’s great to be with you. 

Tom: Thank you. 

Leslie: So we should also mention that we’re on the board of the Weston A Price Foundation together, maybe just so people know, we’ve been connected for quite a long time. Been friends only ten years or something now. 

Tom: Yeah. 

Leslie: So, just going back to my background, one of the things I really like to talk about, and I feel something that gives me a unique perspective on the world and what’s happening in the world, is that I actually have a background in finance. I have an MBA from the University of Chicago. I worked for Goldman Sachs, then I went to go and work for one of their clients, Alliance Capital, and managed their European growth and portfolio management business and research department. 

Tom: Oh, I didn’t know all that. 

Leslie: So I did all that.

Tom: You were a big shot

Leslie: I actually was. 

Tom: Yeah.

Leslie: You know, when I quit, it was really funny; people were like, what are you doing? You know, you have it all essentially. But I felt empty doing what I was doing. It just wasn’t fulfilling me. I felt like I was just pushing myself really hard, and I had some experiences that caused me to reflect on what I was participating in. So I was living in London at the time, I’d been there for a number of years, and I ended up living there for ten years, and my son was born there, and my health-

Tom: Was there any specific experience you could point to where you said to yourself, I don’t know about this? 

Leslie: Oh, I mean, this story, it still makes me sick to my stomach. So I was working in Alliance Capital, and my job as the director of all of our European growth businesses was to select the stocks from Europe that would go into our global and international portfolios and European portfolios. And it meant that I got to meet the CEOs of some of the biggest companies in the world. I even met the US companies when they would come through London offices because we are a big shareholder. And so the CEO of one of the biggest pharmaceutical companies in the world who happens, I won’t say who it is, just because I don’t wanna- 

Tom: Yeah, no, that’s fine.

Leslie: But I will say that it’s one of the companies that’s produced a Covid vaccine, okay. So you can figure that out; it’s one of those four. The CEO comes into our offices, and we were the biggest, one of the biggest shareholders in their company. Betting on a new blockbuster drug that they were bringing out that was in phase three trials, which is the phase that all drugs go through before they get licensed by the FDA and then can make it to market. And the phase three trials, there were rumors coming out that people were dying in the trials, and the CEO and the CFO, the Chief Financial Officer and the head of R and D and the head of Investor Relations, and I forget who else, all came into our offices. And we had this big meeting sitting around a conference table with a live speaker to our New York office and our portfolio managers and pharmaceutical analyst there, and then our whole team in London, all on this thing.

Tom: And you were sort of the person they had to convince, right? 

Leslie: I was one of the key people, yes, and so was our pharmaceutical analyst, our European pharmaceutical analyst. So the stock was getting crushed. It was down, I don’t know, 20 or 30% because these rumors were leaking out. And I will never forget this as long as I live. They came in, they sat down, and the whole reason they were doing this, what they called a roadshow to go and see investors was because they were trying to reassure investors that everything was okay, right? 

Tom: Yeah.

Leslie: This is their new blockbuster drug. And for everyone to understand this, when a pharmaceutical company brings out a new drug, in particular, one that’s called a blockbuster, this is gonna be a significant portion of their revenues and their profits going forward. And that is the reason why investors will buy it because they want to participate in the future cash flows, profits, and sales. 

Tom: They don’t want the old ones that are going off-path. 

Leslie: No, because it’s all about what’s happening in the future. The stock market is all about what’s happening in the future and what valuations are, okay? So is it expensive on, you know, price-to-earnings ratios, price, book value relative to future growth, things like this. And so what happened is he comes in, and he says, listen, and I’m not kidding you, his straight face, listen, the bad news is we’ve got these phase three trials going on, and in very, very rare instances, there have been some problems, and some people have died. And he said the bad news is the FDA is going to make us put a black box warning on the packaging. The good news is we still think we’ll be able to do 7 billion in peak sales. 

Tom: Wow.

Leslie: And I was like, Oh! No one else flinched. I couldn’t believe it. But for me, I felt like someone had kicked me in the stomach, and I was just like, Oh my gosh! This is just wrong! They’re knowingly going to kill people. I couldn’t believe it, Tom, because even though I was still very mainstream at that point in my life, you know, this is 22-23 years ago, and I tried to live a healthy life or what I thought was a healthy life, but I really didn’t think that they were that evil, right? I’d never heard someone be that cavalier in their assessment of the trade-off between corporate profit and human life. And I was just sickened by it. And I got up after the meeting, and everyone else was like writing down, you know, gosh, this is X percentage of profits, and the stocks down this much. We should be buying the stock, right? It’s not that bad. Well, I went into my office, and I literally paced back and forth for I don’t know how long, couple minutes, just like really worked up, and afterwards opened the door of my office and walked down the hallway to the pharmaceutical analyst, and I flung her door open and walked inside, and she’s like sitting in her chair looking up at me like Yes? And I just said, Isabelle, this is wrong! And she shrugged her shoulders like, I know, but what do you want me to do about it? And I just thought myself, I mean, that was a really pivotal moment for me that crystallized very clearly what I was participating in. And it didn’t feel good. 

Tom: Yeah.

Leslie: And it drove home other experiences that I had had that had made me sort of question or wonder or read between the lines of things that CEOs have said, you know, when they were talking about how they were so confident that they were going to get the contract for the new power project in Indonesia or wherever it might be. It’s cuz they knew because they were probably bribing them. You know, like, it just gave me a completely new perspective on the world and, in particular, the corporate world. 

Tom: Yeah. So it wasn’t about whether this was good for the world or the planet or people, or it was just all about money.

Leslie: Yeah. It was really shocking to me. It was one of the things that began to rip the veil for me. And, I was at the same time actually really sick, and I didn’t know why or what had happened to me, but I was just getting sicker and sicker when I kept going to the doctor, a mainstream doctor in London, and he finally said, listen, I know you’re sick, and you know you’re sick, but I can’t help you and western medicine can’t help you. You should go and see a homeopath or an acupuncturist. And so I did that.

Tom: Just tell the story briefly again about what had happened when you were well, and then what happened?

Leslie: Well, so I was 28 years old. I just graduated from business school. I was going to start working for Goldman Sachs in New York, and I thought I had the world by the tail. Everything was great. And I and a bunch of girlfriends went to Southeast Asia for two months, and before we went, one of my friends said, don’t forget to get your vaccines. And I thought, Oh, I would’ve never thought about that, but thanks. And I went over to the medical center at the University of Chicago where I got my MBA, and I just said, I’m going to Southeast Asia, I need to get my shots, and I remember the woman said, Well, what do you want? And I’m like, What do you wanna give me? 

Tom: Yeah, right. 

Leslie: I mean, I thought it was one-way trade. It was only positive that could possibly come from it. Never did it occur to me that there might be some kind of potential downside. And so I got every childhood vaccine and every travel vaccine essentially in one day. And then I went back a week later and got another round of my boosters. And within a couple weeks, I had like boils on my face, my periods changed, and my digestion shut down. I developed all these allergies, and then as the weeks of the months unfolded, I got unbelievable migraine headaches that would last for five to seven days.

Tom: And you’d had none of this before?

Leslie: None of it.

Tom: Yeah.

Leslie: I didn’t get boils on my face. I didn’t have headaches that lasted for five to seven days. I didn’t have sensitivity to perfume or cigarettes, or chemicals. I mean, if I smell still to this day, if I smell people with perfume, it’s overwhelming to me, some stuff I just, I literally have to remove myself. I didn’t have numbness and tingling of my body. I didn’t have this like neck stiffness. I was able, I could sleep through a train wreck. My mother said, she’s like, I used to vacuum around you, and I became light sensitive, sound sensitive, just stimulus sensitive. And you know, these are all the hallmarks of kids with autism essentially. I was an adult who had developed the spectrum of features of autism. 

Tom: You were basically poisoned essentially. 

Leslie: Yeah. 

Tom: So then what? So now here you are and say, I’m not doing this Goldman Sachs thing anymore.

Leslie: Yeah, so, well, what happened was, so, I’m super sick, and I go, and I see a homeopath, and she actually changes my life.

She starts to help me to heal, and I’m thinking, this is really cool. You know, it’s all about the mind-body connection and energy medicine. And this is stuff that’s kind of blowing my mind, but it’s really fascinating to me. And more than anything, I can feel it changing me. I can feel an impact. And so I enrolled in homeopathy college, even though I was still this executive. And the first day in orientation, the instructor said, over the next three years of this course, we’re gonna talk about the mind-body connection. We’re going to talk about obstacles to cure, nutrition, and vaccine damage. And I raised my hand cuz I was still clueless. I had no idea what was going on with me, I had 13 sinus infections in three years, and I’d never had one before. You know, just chronic infections and sickness. 

Tom: So you, at that point, hadn’t put anything together? 

Leslie: No clue. It wasn’t until, I’d say, halfway through making The Greater Good, maybe three quarters, that I really fully started to digest the fact that what I had was severe vaccine injury.

Tom: Wow. 

Leslie: That’s what I realized. So anyway, so I’m sitting there, and he says, we’re gonna talk about vaccine injury. And I mean, I was so naive; still, I raised my hand, and I’m like, excuse me, vaccines are the greatest invention of humankind. And he chuckled and shrugged, and he’s like, well, that’s one perspective, and we’re gonna learn about another. 

And after that orientation, I went out into the hallway, and there was a bookstore laid out, and there was Neil Z Miller’s book, Vaccines: Are They Really Safe and Effective? And he came up, he’s like, read that book. Just read that. And I read that book, and I literally cried.

Tom: And this was when now? About? 

Leslie: Probably the year 2000, maybe? 

Tom: Yeah. 20 years. Okay.

Leslie: Yeah, 20 years ago. Definitely, it was somewhere in 2000, 2001 at the very latest. 

Tom: Yeah. Got it. Okay. 

Leslie: I read that book, and the next weekend of classes, I took the book in my hand and stormed into the president of the homeopathic college’s offices. And I was like, how can this be true? I was like, partly crying and partly yelling at her, and she looked at me like sorry to burst your bubble, sister, but she just shrugged her shoulders, and she was like, money. And I was just staggered by that because that book has over 960 footnotes to the medical literature documenting all these things, autoimmune disease and seizures, neurological disorders and death, autoimmune and allergies.

And, I mean, I can’t even recite the spectrum of things, but over 960 footnotes to the medical literature documenting all these issues from vaccinations going back a century. 

Tom: Yeah.

Leslie: And I just thought in that moment, I literally felt called by God. I seriously did. And I just thought, I knew right then and there that someday I would make a movie about that issue, learn for myself the truth, and share it with the world. And so that was literally the impetus behind The Greater Good.

Tom: But even then, you still didn’t really put it together. That’s interesting. 

Leslie: I had no idea that what was going on with me was that. Yeah. 

Tom: Wow. Even then, even once you saw all these exact symptoms you’re talking about, they were literally documented to be from these vaccines. It still didn’t hit. It just goes to the depth of the delusion that people suffer from. 

Leslie: It’s unreal, Tom.

Tom: Unreal.

Leslie: I saw my brother this past weekend, and he told me about a friend of his who has a child with severe autism and who will have to be institutionalized at some point. And my brother once said, Hey, have you ever considered that it might be vaccines and that you could detox and address it? And he just looked at him and said, Don’t you ever say that again to me, or I’ll never be your friend anymore. And you know, it’s, I mean, I did it to myself. So that’s one thing, but it’s gotta be incredibly challenging, I mean, just heartbreaking for parents. And so, yes, I think it’s twofold one the brainwashing that we’ve been subjected to for a century about vaccines. And it is brainwashing because we have been lied to since the beginning about their safety, their efficacy, and the extent to which they’ve been proven. To which they’ve even been studied. So that’s one part of the puzzle, that it’s saved humanity. That’s just not true. It’s patently false. And if you dig into the literature, you’ll find that 90% of the decline in disease mortality in the western world occurred before the advent or widespread use of either antibiotics or vaccines. So that’s not what it’s attributed to. That’s one piece of it. But the other piece of it, of course, is cognitive dissonance, right? That we can’t actually digest this because I think the ramifications are too huge. One that I might have injured myself or my children. And two, I think the other thing is that who can we trust? If we can’t trust health authorities with the health and well-being of our most vulnerable, our babies, then can we trust them with anything? And if we can’t trust them with anything, what does that mean, Tom? 

Tom: Yeah. Right.

Leslie: We’re, we’re on our own. It means we are on our own and that you have to be responsible for every aspect of your life. And a lot of people don’t want that. 

Tom: Yeah. You know, I’ve often thought the same thing. One of the things I feel blessed about is in my approximately 37 years of being a family doctor, as best I can remember, I’ve given like five tetanus shots plain tetanus. And by the way, I regret every one of those, but I can imagine how difficult it would be if I had been doing normal vaccines and then just to face it in myself that I did that for six months or a year. And you can always say, Well, I didn’t know better, and you can make up a lot of excuses, but at the end of the day, there’s a kind of reckoning, and there’s a certain maturity, you know, kind of emotional, psychological maturity that I don’t think most doctors have, and they can’t face it. And that’s a big part of the problem.

Leslie: So, who wants to face all of this? 

Tom: Yeah. Who? Right. I don’t wanna face it. 

Leslie: I mean, I think most human beings don’t wanna face the fact that they actually are responsible for everything in their lives, right? There’s this, and that parent-child relationship is actually cultivated by the media, by the medical profession, by government, by education, even by our families in so many ways, right? So many, there’s so many aspects of our lives that are actually teaching us to be obedient rule-followers rather than questioners, you know? 

Tom: Absolutely. Yeah. Anyway, so forget about that phone for a minute, 

Leslie: No worries. Let me just say, so getting back to, like, I want to wrap this together because it comes back to your first question of, what’s my background, and how did this all start? Well, essentially, I have this background in finance, which gives me a perspective on these businesses and also on finance, cuz I still pay attention to what’s going on in the world. And make no mistake that what has been going on in the world in the last 15-16 months is part of an agenda that’s global, and some of the roots of it are in the financial systems or the. Destruction of the financial systems, the impending destruction of the financial systems, because essentially, our system is bankrupt. 

Tom: Right.

Leslie: And that’s a big piece of it. And then there’s also the whole transhumanist, technocratic agenda about enslaving humanity. I mean, that’s a real thing too; that’s going on. But the reason that I brought up that, the finance stuff, is that I’m now a qualified homeopath. I’ve made this movie about vaccines, and I’ve also got this financial perspective. And I think that it gives me, perhaps, a different perspective than the average person who’s working on this, you know, on this issue in trying to wake people up. Because I see the financial part that a lot of people don’t, and it certainly informs my thinking on a lot of it because I’m aware of what’s going on.

Tom: Right. So at that, you have this sort of almost revelation, it sounds like, that I gotta do something about this.

Leslie: A hundred percent.

Tom: So happens next after that? 

Leslie: Well, I, first, I got married and then had a baby.

Tom: Yeah.

Leslie: And I chose not to with, along with my husband, we chose not to vaccinate our son. And at the time, we thought it was a really risky move. You know, we were very frightened about it, Very concerned, but we were fairly resolute. But we were definitely concerned. Best decision I ever made that we ever made. He’s 18 now, and he’s just healthy, and he’s just a little rockstar of an 18-year-old senior in high school. He’s a great kid. What’s happened in the last, you know, 18 years is that so much science has come along, right? Especially since making of The Greater Good. Because the greater good really catalyzed the whole vaccine movement. And for people who don’t know about it, you can find it at That’s our movie website. So what happened was I had his son, and I was afraid, but I just kept researching and learning and researching. And then I actually, shortly after he was born, I quit Wall Street in order to raise him and to commit my life to doing things that I felt were more beneficial to humanity and, really kind of switched teams, if you will. I felt like, okay, I have this great experience, education, and all this. I should be using it for good. 

Tom: Yeah, not for the greater good, but for real good. 

Leslie: I’m not trying to say that I was using it for bad in the, in, in my previous career. I felt like I was playing for the wrong team if that makes sense.

Tom: Yeah. Got it. 

Leslie: So I quit, and I just kept gathering more and more information, and it was around 2006 or 2007 that I met my film partners, a guy named Chris Pilaro, who has since passed, and a dear friend of mine, Kendall Nelson, who actually does some work for the Weston A Price Foundation.

Tom: Right. 

Leslie: And they were both accomplished filmmakers, which is what I needed because I knew making a movie on vaccines had to be perfect, right It had to ha be the highest quality, so there was nothing that they could possibly attack us over, right It couldn’t be something that had to do with the filmmaking.

Tom: Yeah. 

Leslie: The production, the editing, and we had a Sundance Award-winning editor, a Sundance award-winning photographer, and a director of photography. Chris was a Sundance Award winner as well on some of his other projects, and we made an amazing film, and we won several awards and had great early media because I think we caught them off guard. They didn’t expect the media to be as favorable, and so what happened was we got a really great review from the LA Weekly and a great review from the Wall Street Journal online. 

Tom: So they probably didn’t expect the level of science that you brought to it, is my guess. 

Leslie: And the fairness with which we treated the subject, right We didn’t; it was not polemical in any way. It was really, okay, let’s let Dr. Paul Offit argue his side, and let’s let Dr. Bob Sears argue his side or Dr. Larry Palevsky. And you know, we had Barbara Loe Fisher, and then we had a bunch of families. So we had Stanley Plotkin and other people. We had so many different perspectives, all sharing theirs, and we really left it to the viewer to make their decision as to whom they wanted to believe. 

Tom: Yeah.

Leslie: And I think that was actually, in some ways, far more subversive, Right? 

Tom: Yeah 

Leslie: To the machine, then something that hit them over the head. It wasn’t like that And so what happened was we did a theatrical release in Los Angeles, and everything was going great And then two weeks later, our three weeks later, we did our theatrical release in New York, and that was when they sic the dogs on us. 

Tom: And sicing the dogs means what?

Leslie: The New York Times wrote a review that can only be described as lies. It literally was lies, distortion, and inventive. It was horrific. It was a smear And when we called them out, I mean one of their things was that we discounted the severity or seriousness of any of these infectious diseases. We showed children in the first minute, I believe, of the film in Iron Lungs. We showed a baby with measles rash all over. You know, it was just a complete; it was clearly not written by anyone who’d watched the film. It was a hundred percent a smear campaign And so somebody on our team reached out to the New York Times and said, Hey this isn’t accurate And so then they put a little disclaimer, they corrected one aspect, and they said, that due to a complaint from the filmmakers, we’ve edited it well, that just smeared us further So then they wrote that it was because they had received complaints from readers, and we called them out and said, Well, which readers And we requested phone logs and all these things And then they said, they just basically wouldn’t talk to us and wouldn’t give us any information There’s a whole chapter on it I actually don’t remember the whole story on it But basically they smeared us, they libeled us, they lied, and of course that’s up there now on their website forever And they can never correct what they did in print, right And so it was just, it was literally like, we are going to derail them right now And the problem was that Chris in particular didn’t want to call them out because he didn’t want to, he didn’t wanna call out Sundance Sundance, the director of programming, wanted our film in Sundance, but her hands were tied by somebody from above. 

Tom: Wow. 

Leslie: Yeah, so we were censored by Sundance, and then the New York Times did this, and I wanted to make a big stink about it. But you know, if you still have aspirations of being an acclaimed filmmaker, then you’re less likely to do that. I didn’t really care about that. I cared about the, you know, just pushing back and exposing what was going on And so, anyway, it’s just really interesting I’ve been censored and smeared by CBS, CNN, NBC. I think if I remember the New York Times, I mean, it’s like, it’s crazy. This machine is so connected People have no idea. 

Tom: Yeah. 

Leslie: Anyway, that’s really the background that made the film And then what happened was I just kept getting sicker and sicker and sicker and ended up having to withdraw from a bunch of my work about four or five years ago and really focus on my healing And after I did IV chelation and passed literally buckets and buckets of parasites Then I started doing homeopathic detox of vaccinations, and that was when I saw a massive change in my health. And for me, it was really a revelatory moment because it confirmed exactly what was going on. I mean, I’m detoxing the vaccines, and I feel like someone has plugged me in for the first time in 30 years. It was extraordinary, really. 

Tom: So homeopathic detox is essentially an energetic form of the vaccine, essentially, right? 

Leslie: And you take them starting in a low potency and working up, and what it does is it prompts your body to start to clear the problems caused by the vaccines, and it was like literally, I’d take a few drops, and I could feel the difference just from a few drops instantaneously.

Tom: So that was another level of confirmation that, in fact, what had happened to you, and literally what happens to probably millions of people, is vaccine damage. 

Leslie: And the thing is, Tom, it’s so slow, it’s so insidious, right People don’t realize it unless you have the anaphylactic type reaction that is, you know, quite immediate Most people don’t ever connect the two And even with all the work that I’d done, I still didn’t connect the two, or I didn’t, At one point I started to connect the two, but I still didn’t fully accept it because I didn’t wanna be sensational or paranoid or anything like that.

Tom: Right.

Leslie: But when I took those drops and the unbelievable change, I felt it was like kind of hard to deny it anymore. You can’t, you know, it’s pretty clear what’s happened. I’ve heard you say, you know, if an anvil hits you on the head, it was probably the anvil that did it. Well, it was pretty obvious what happened at that point.

And now, I mean, my naturopath put me on her machine, and she’s like, You are loaded with metals. You have a severe vaccine injury. You have all these other things. But those are the two priorities, and until we do IV chelation, none of it’s gonna shift, and I’d done every kind of detox imaginable, but chelation is what really switched things for me, and then taking those remedies. It was just, that’s when my life started to turn around, and that brings us to the present, which is that I did that for a couple of years and got stronger and stronger. And last year, in January, when the whole coronavirus narrative broke out, I said to my husband in January, early January, you watch this. You mark my words. They’re starting this in China because they are going to show, China’s gonna show the rest of the world how to do it. They could never lock down the west because people would resist, and so they have to do it somewhere where people will accept it in order to frame it as the way to approach this. And then everything will be good in the west. And, of course, what happened a couple months later? 

Tom: Got it. So at that point, your overall take on vaccines was what? By January last?

Leslie: Oh, they’re poison. 

Tom: Yeah.

Leslie: They’re poison. I mean, I’ve gotten, like I said, when we first didn’t vaccinate our son, I was quite nervous about it. In the last ten years, I’ve told him not only should he resist if someone comes near him, but he’s under my orders to run, fight, kick, scream, pull hair, and bite. I don’t care what you do, you get away from them, and you do not let them put that in you. 

Tom: Right.

Leslie: Because they are not what we’re told they are.

Tom: Yeah, 

Leslie: They are filled with all kinds of adventitious agents. We have no idea what they’re really doing to the body. We don’t, and I would much rather have a robust, healthy, unimpaired immune system to deal with whatever I encounter in my life than something that is manipulated by a vaccination and altered for the rest of my life. So, no, I mean, a hundred percent. And listen, the mountain of science, I’ve heard many doctors say the issue of vaccination and their safety is no longer subject to debate. It is a fact demonstrated crystal clear in the medical literature the vaccines injure and cause harm to untold numbers of people. The only thing that is open to debate is how many and why this isn’t being openly discussed.

That’s the only thing that’s really open to debate at this point. Anybody who does a deep dive in the literature is going to be, I defy anyone to come to that conclusion, who’s actually done the 20 years of research that I have. I just think it’s impossible. 

Tom: Yeah, basically the sciences, as clear as science ever is the these, this is basically, it’s basically a toxin, essentially.

Leslie: Yeah. 

Tom: All right. So, that’s clear enough. So then we get to the current situation and, yeah, run us through. I don’t know if we wanna get into so much of the financial, but I’m happy to hear about that and what you’ve seen in the last 14-16 months. And then especially regards to the new injections, what you know about them, and then how people can go about protecting themselves. 

Leslie: Okay. One thing I also wanna add is, let’s be really clear, I was not anti-vaccine, right I fully believed in them, but they caused irreparable harm in me, and anti-vaxxer is the moniker that they attribute to people in order to smear them. If I don’t wanna drive a Pinto, that doesn’t make me anti-car. Or if I don’t wanna eat GMOs, it doesn’t make me anti-food, right We should all be free to question any of these things, and this is just the way that they try and minimize us to dehumanize us so that others won’t listen to us.

Tom: Right.

Leslie: So coming back to January of last year, as I said, as soon as it started, I was like, Oh, I could just see it unfolding And if I can, I’d really like to talk about something that we talked about when we did this live, which is how do we get to the point where I knew what was coming in January? 

Tom: Yeah.

Leslie: And when they put out, I think it was within a week or 10 days of the first reports out of China, they then said, Oh the virus lives on money for nine days and then they change it to 14, and then they said it was 20 something or other Now this ties back into the financial piece of it It’s really important to people understand this is all about engendering fear in the public for an agenda So let me go back and talk about how we got here and why those things, how those things come together So basically if you look back, if you go back as far as 1980, there was something called the Bayh-Dole Act that was passed and this was, an act of Congress that legalized federal employees using, or anybody, any researchers using federal funding, retaining patents on their intellectual property That’s really important because as it is today, people in Dr. Fauci’s group at NIH own patents on the Moderna vaccine, NIH owns patents on the Moderna vaccine, roughly half of the Moderna vaccine, which to my way of thinking is a big giant red flag slash conflict of interest that shouldn’t exist But the Bayh-Dole Act facilitated that So now scientists can retain, profit, you know, future profits from things that they develop when they are, even though they’ve developed those, that intellectual property or that project, you know, whatever the product might be on taxpayer dollars, okay That was a major, major shift Then 12 years after that, in 1992, the Prescription Drug User Fee Act was passed and this is in a really important, piece of legislation because what it did was it said, Well, you pharmaceutical companies, you are users of the FDA and therefore you should be paying a fee to use it And what we’ll do furthermore, is charge you extra fees if you wanna fast track your products So this is critical Gardasil of vaccine for the HPV virus, human papilloma virus was fast tracked Even though this original study was supposed to last for four years, they ended up fast tracking it in 15 or 18 months and pushing it to market even though there was really no, there was no need for it And there’s clearly no proof I won’t go into that That’s just another diversion But basically the point is that this prescription drug user fee act allowed the pharmaceutical industry to start paying user fees to the FDA in particular when they wanna expedite their products But anytime, And what happened over time is it started out small and as we stand today, more than 50%, depending on the year, 50 to 60% of the salaries of the drug reviewers at FDA is paid directly by the pharmaceutical industry It is what you call a captured agency, the fda, who do you think they serve you or the people who are paying their bills The pharmaceutical industry.

Tom: Right. 

Leslie: So these two things are huge, right? 

Tom: Right.

Leslie: Then you fast forward to 9/11, and after 9/11, within 45 days, the Patriot Act was passed, which allowed warrantless search and seizure of Americans and mass surveillance, okay, huge violations of our constitutionally protected rights But that’s what it facilitated.

And of course, what happened Well, everyone’s afraid So people were like, Well, I’ll give up a little freedom for a little bit of safety Very, very dangerous thing to do as we know Then within a couple of weeks after that, the Model State Emergency Health Powers Act legislation was put forth literally within like two weeks of the Patriot Act And that was really important because this legislation conferred extraordinary powers to state and federal health authorities In the event of a disease outbreak and also to governors, okay, so to the states, and that legislation has been ratified in part or in whole by I think 43 states So you can see where this is going In 2005, the Prep Act was passed and the Prep Act did a bunch of things One, is it vested the power in the Secretary of HHS to declare emergencies It also removed any financial or legal liability from the pharmaceutical industry or any company that produces a product created under Emergency Use Authorization, which means the vaccine makers for covid 19 vaccines have zero liability But you know what The masks are issued under EUA and so are the tests So even though the tests are highly flawed, one might argue fraudulent The manufacturer bears zero liability for them and cannot be sued for them. 

Tom: And contain carcinogenic chemicals and God knows what other nanoparticles and metals and particulate matters.

Leslie: A hundred percent Tom.

Tom: Both the tests and the masks.

Leslie: So, now we can see, now we’ve been in this now for 30, what is it, 30 years, and we’re just working- 

Tom: None of those people have any liability or have any requirement to prove that they’re safe or effective? 

Leslie: No, none. None. So that’s 2005, the Prep Act, and the Prep Act is what President Trump declared; he invoked that last year in order to declare an emergency, okay? In I think it was February when he did it. Anyway, then you fast forward to 2012 

Tom: And so you, you’ve been following this for years because it’s tied up with the whole vaccine, lack of liability as well.

Leslie: Absolutely. So we know that just for vaccines in general, in America, the manufacturers don’t bear any liability, financial or legal.

Tom: Or the doctors.

Leslie: Or the doctors, anybody who administers one. Yeah. So that’s something that has been deeply important to me, and I’ve been paying attention to it for 20 years now. 

Tom: Yeah.

Leslie: And, of course, once you start digging in, you start looking at all these other connections. And so you learn about these other pieces of the puzzle. And then along the way, there have also been things like the Vaccinate All Children Act, which congresswoman Frederica Wilson from Florida has introduced two or three times in the last 10 years okay. Trying to make it federal law that all children be vaccinated because vaccination laws right now are state laws because that’s something that, that the constitution, that power was not given to the federal government. It was delegated to the states. In the constitution, anything that related to health rights. And so she’s been trying to change that, and the HHS has put out white papers on why every human being should be vaccinated for 10 years, 11 years. So I’ve been following this, and then you get to the National Defense Authorization Act, which is something that is signed every year by the president And in the 2012 NDAA is what it’s called for short, in the 2012 version of that, that President Obama signed, they legalized propagandizing American citizens. So hitherto, the CIA could propagandize foreigners, so infiltrate their countries and disseminate dishonest, manipulative information in order to affect elections and public opinion and all sorts of things like that. But it was illegal in this country Until 2012. And everybody said, Don’t worry, don’t worry. We’re legalizing it, but we’re not creating a program to do it, and we’re not funding it. So they did that in 2013 and 2016. They set up the program, and then they funded it. And this is so important because it, really, if you take everything together, the government can profit off of vaccines. They can’t be sued against them. The manufacturers can’t be sued. They can surveil us, they can control us, they can lock us down, they can, and there’s more to it like the World Health Organization now, its charter was changed in, I think, 2005 or 2007 in order to make it legally binding. On all 194 member states, when they declare a global pandemic, their laws, their edicts, superseded the laws of your individual nation-states. So all countries have to comply. It’s insane. So you can see all the stuff comes together to get us to 2020 and covid. So when this whole thing started out last year, all of this is in the back of my mind, and I’m like, Here we are.

Tom: Yeah.

Leslie: This is what they’ve been agitating for a very long time. They’ve been laying the groundwork for it, and it’s all the warnings that people have been putting out and been talking about for years and years. On my website,, I actually wrote a post last year called the Slow March to Authoritarianism because I could see very clearly where it was going, and so here we are on the precipice of it, and we know that this is about. Literally, getting us to a point where every single human being has a global digital id, which is connected to their medical records, their vaccine records, their bank accounts, their driver’s license, their passport, their voting records, anything and everything of any consequence all connected together. And it’s not for your good folks. It’s for control. It’s a hundred percent for control so that they can implement a system where you do what you’re told, or, Hey, you can’t go and watch a basketball game, or you can’t go to a concert, or you can’t go to school or work or buy groceries or go to the library.

Tom: All right.

Leslie: And Tom, one really important piece about this we need to understand is that the reason that they put that thing out about the currency is because they wanna get rid of paper money Because paper money can’t be tracked. And so this is why they want it connected to your bank accounts, right. So they have to create a situation that scares you away from paper money so that you will accept their solution, which is a digital currency, which they can delete from your account. 

Tom: Move everybody and everything online. Yeah. All right So what do you know about these covid injections? 

Leslie: Sadly, more and more, unfortunately. So there are four main shots that are out there being used right now in the United States and in Europe. In the United States, you’ve got the Moderna shot, the Pfizer shot, the J&J shot, and the Janssen shot. It’s a joint venture between the two, and in Europe, you’ve got, I don’t know, if they’ve approved the J&J shot or if they’ve just got AstraZeneca, Moderna, and Pfizer. The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are mRNA vaccines, messenger RNA vaccines, and the other two are adenovirus vector vaccines, which contain the DNA of the spike protein of the coronavirus injected into the adenovirus, which has been hollowed out to create a carrier for this DNA, which is then delivered into your cells, and the mRNA vaccines deliver their payload, which is the genetic sequence of the spike protein of the supposed, and we’re not gonna get into-

Tom: We’re not getting into that. 

Leslie: For the purpose of this conversation, let’s just assume that everything that they’re saying about the virus and its existence and its structure and all that is true, okay, because it’s just easier. 

Tom: Yeah. Right, no, that’s fine. 

Leslie: The mRNA vaccine, these vaccines are really gene therapy, right They’re not vaccines in the, in the normal way that people think of vaccines. But the mRNA vaccines contain a single strand of RNA, and the other two vaccines contain a double-strand DNA of the spike protein. Okay, so what these vaccines do is that they enter your cells, and they deliver their payload of this genetic material. And then they tell your body, in the mRNA vaccine case, they instruct your body, your own cells, to start synthesizing the spike protein. Then your body is supposed to mount an antibody response to that, which is supposed to confer immunity on you, which, you know, antibodies are not immunity, and we know that. We know that our innate immune system and our learned immune system have different roles. And T-cell immunity is something that more and more researchers are talking about, which is the ability for our system to learn and then remember that we’ve already been exposed to something, and therefore, our body knows how to deal with it. And this is why they’re saying that 30 to 50% of the public has T-cell memory and t-cell immunity to the virus. And so they don’t need anything, right But anyway, the problem with these mRNA vaccines is that you inject this stuff, and no one can tell you what happens. No one knows where it goes and how long it lasts. They assume it persists for three days in the cells, but there’s no evidence of that. It is an assumption, and we do know that, that all over our body, we have these receptors for where this supposed spike protein docs in our blood vessels and our lungs and our hearts and, you know, all over the place. And we don’t know how to turn this off, and we don’t know what the long-term ramifications are. FDA has issued Emergency Use Authorization for all these products. They are not FDA-approved. And under EUA, they are deemed investigational, meaning that they are experimental, and by law, by federal law, we’re required to have the option to accept or refuse, but they’re being forced on people. So they can cause a huge, you know, a whole spectrum, and then the thing is, at first, I think people were more concerned about the mRNA vaccines thinking that they were newfangled and different, which they are because this technology’s never been used in a vaccine before. And in all of the vaccine trials on Coronaviruses that they have attempted in the last 20 years, none of them have made it beyond animal studies because all of the animals got really sick and died when they were exposed to wild viruses. So these vaccines have actually never been subjected to animal studies, which is crazy given what happened in the past. And then, when you look at the J&J and the AstraZeneca jabs. These are these adenoviruses that have been hollowed out, and then this genetic material is injected into them. And more and more scientists are speaking out and saying that they absolutely exists the possibility that this stuff is going to enter, is going to have the capability to enter into your nucleus and insert itself into your DNA, into your innate genetic material and alter you and humanity for eternity. These vaccines we know are causing a huge spectrum of problems, have been over 2,500 deaths in the United States and many more than that in Europe. Over 50,000 adverse reactions were reported to the Vaccine Adverse Events reporting system, which is a passive system. So it’s not very accurate, and we believe that only one to 10% of all reactions are ever reported because no one’s actually actively going out and looking. 

Tom: 500,000 at least so far. And, I just want to say that it was a great description you had, although there are so many parts of that science, which are actually, I would say, bogus and best, including receptors and all that. Anyways, even the point is people that even looking at it from a normal point of view, even accepting the nonsense that is past for virology. It still looks like terrible science and just a horrendous experiment that has the potential to do an unbelievable amount of harm, that’s for sure. 

Leslie: I mean, you’re a physician, Tom. Why, you know, the Hippocratic oath first, do no harm. Why would you ever want to inject something into someone that you believe is dangerous? Right? Doesn’t make any sense, does it? And why would you wanna inject something that you don’t know how to stop? 

Tom: Yeah, great, great question.

Leslie: And you don’t know what the long-term ramifications are, right It just, it baffles me.

Tom: The only thing that people, listening, you know, most of the people probably listening to this have been through this mill for years. So they know this, they know the ropes, but for those who haven’t, the question that keeps coming up is, how come they don’t know this? And how come my nice doctor who’s taken care of my family, he surely must know the science And I can tell you that this, these nice doctors like myself, you know, just let me give an example: Like if I don’t necessarily wanna get into this so much, but even the question, how does a doctor know there’s a new virus and prove it causes disease after 35 years I had no clue how to answer that question. I don’t know a single doctor who knows how to answer that question. And so if you think about that as, you know, in relation to what the, what doctors simply just don’t know. They don’t know the science.

Leslie: They don’t know the science. And also, I mean, listen, our world is crazy busy, right? And they do not; I mean, most doctors, what do they see? They have 10 minutes per patient, 15?

Tom: Yeah.

Leslie: Right, and I mean, I remember reading, it was probably eight or ten years ago that in every single year, so this is ten years old, at least 250,000 scientific papers published in peer review journals 250,000. Who could read a 10th of those? Who could read 1% of those? And the thing is, the science is moving so fast, there is so much, and all of these doctors, you know, so many doctors, they maintain memberships in different organizations that they think are representing them and giving them the latest knowledge or information, the latest thinking on something. And what they really are is those things like the AMA and the AAP, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the American Medical Association. First of all, most physicians aren’t members. A fraction of them are, and secondly, and most importantly, they take huge donations from the pharmaceutical industry and Coca-Cola, and I mean all sorts of, you know, private industry, which then has a vested interest in what is actually shared with their membership. And so there’s just no wave. It’s very challenging for the average doctor to actually know what’s really going on. 

Tom: Yeah. All right, Now that let’s maybe finish by talking about your organization and how people can get help with various covid and injection-related issues. 

Leslie: Yeah, so as all this was unfolding last year, I had the great fortune of having an amazing lawyer brought into my life, and I started teaching him about what’s going on with respect to the vaccination situation, and this is someone who’s been in the law for almost 40 years. And he couldn’t believe everything I was telling him. And I would say, hey George, you know, vaccines, they don’t use true placebos in the studies, and he’d say, that can’t be true. And hey, you know, there’s a special vaccine court that you have to go to, and there’s no due process, and there’s no discovery, and there’s no jury, and there’s no judge, there’s a special master. And he would couldn’t believe that. And then he would come back to me and say, Oh my gosh, Leslie, if you aren’t right and somebody’s gotta do something about this. And ultimately, what happened was I just kind of had another one of those moments like I did about the movie, and I thought, Oh, this is what I’m meant to be doing.

Tom: Yeah. 

Leslie: And so I founded a nonprofit called Health Freedom Defense Fund, which you can find at, and the whole mission of Health Freedom Defense Fund is to educate about these health freedom issues that we’re discussing and Protect people’s health rights wherever they might be infringed. So we are sending letters to cease and desist letters to employers all over the nation when people are being told that they have to get these experimental vaccines. And we are also in the process right now of suing the Los Angeles Unified School District on the behalf of employees. We’re assisting these employees in that venture. They are being told that they can’t come back to work unless they use a daily pass to verify their health and be tested all the time, and also that they have to be vaccinated. So we’re suing them right now, and we have many other big lawsuits in the works. And I feel, on the one hand, it’s really heartbreaking to think about what’s going on in our country and about what these people who can only be described as evil have in mind for all of us. But I feel really inspired and empowered by doing this work because these people, you know, thousands of people are turning to us who don’t have anywhere else to turn. Yeah. And I really believe that we have the potential to alter this course to the benefit of humanity. 

Tom: Right.

Leslie: And, so that’s what I’m working on And as I’ve said elsewhere, we are so grateful for any donation of any size. I mean ten bucks-

Tom: Give us the website again.

Leslie:, you can contact us through there if you’re having an issue with an employer or a school or somebody bugging you and telling you that your kid has to have this. I mean, listen now, I think it’s, I don’t know if it’s up to 20 colleges and universities so far that have already said that they want to mandate the vaccine next year for school, but we are not gonna take this. 

Tom: Got it. 

Leslie: We’re not gonna take this. We’re pushing back. 

Tom: Great. Okay, Leslie, I am honored to have done this twice, and everybody should go health freedom and take this seriously cuz I think we all have. We know that we have an ally and a friend And again, I just wanna thank you for joining me and all the work that you’re doing. 

Leslie: Well, Tom, thank you so very much for having me. And one other little thing I just wanna say that hopefully will inspire people more is that we are working with the people at Children’s Health Defense. We are working with other lawyers. Health Freedom Defense Fund is part of a global group of lawyers and activists who are trying to work for the betterment of humanity. So there’s a bunch of people out there who are trying to help change what is happening right now. We’re not alone, and we’re gonna win because we have the truth on our side.

Tom: Got it. Freedom always wins.

Leslie: It does, Tom. Thank you for having me again. 

Tom: Thank you All the best. 

Leslie: Thanks, Tom.